Trolling Wikipedia

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  • #609125

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I recently discovered trolling on wikipedia, and it is awesome! What a fun game!

    Look at the YCT article there, and see if you can spot the Popa.

    #1048098

    Sam2
    Participant

    Was that entire gender discrimination section you?

    #1048099

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes indeed. I figured they could use a taste of their own medicine. They are so high and mighty in their egalitarianism, when in truth, it is only a matter of degree and they are way way way closer to the Taliban than they are to normal American society.

    #1048100

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If anyone can find a citation for them talking about how women cannot be eidim or dayanim, that would be great also.

    #1048101

    daniela
    Member

    LOL It took me a few minutes to stop laughing…..

    #1048102

    Ðash®
    Participant

    I always suspected that it was you who edited the Pig Latin article.

    #1048103

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    dash: Lemme see it. Which version should I look at?

    #1048105

    Ðash®
    Participant

    dash: Lemme see it. Which version should I look at?

    Sorry, the mods won’t let me post that link but here’s another one. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/in-telshe-they-dont-wear-tzitzis-and-other-stories#post-438137

    #1048106

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Oh, that was a funny thread. I wonder if that was me who changed that–I certainly cannot remember.

    Note: An important point when trolling Wikipedia is to use an ip proxy. Because they track them.

    #1048107

    squeak
    Participant

    I was wondering when you’d realize that.

    But how clever of you to answer my question from the other thread like this.

    #1048108

    Ðash®
    Participant

    Oh, that was a funny thread. I wonder if that was me who changed that–I certainly cannot remember.

    It came from the same IP address as the recent YCT edits (and surpisingly is still there).

    #1048109

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    Add this:

    Although in June 2009, Weiss created the title MaHaRaT for Sara Hurwitz, he did not call her a rabbi, and is of the opinion that she is not as capable as a male, stating, “She can do 95 percent of what other rabbis do”.[29]

    #1048110

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    DY: You do it. Also, reverse the guy who just deleted my two new sections. I don’t want to be doing an edit war, so I don’t want to reverse it yet.

    #1048111

    OneOfMany
    Member

    “before vandalism attacks”

    rotflmko

    #1048112

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I very much want to read your comments on YCT. Where can I find it??? I read through the entire article. And most of the edits section, but it was mostly left and right knee-jerk arguments.

    #1048113

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Blast it, the admin locked the page because of the guy who was deleting my stuff, but didn’t put my stuff back in!

    #1048114

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Brilliant (I read in the history.) Genius.

    I have a friend who is a long time editor. I will ask them about putting it back in.

    #1048115

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    I don’t know how to use an IP proxy.

    #1048116

    WIY
    Member

    Not sure why you find it so amusing to edit the Young Conservatives of Texas page on wikipedia.

    #1048117

    Brony
    Participant

    you ruined it with “to their credit.” until then you were doing fine.

    #1048118

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t know how to use an IP proxy.

    Google: How to use an IP proxy

    #1048119

    That’s pretty offensive. If anything, you should be trolling non-religious pages or terrorist pages or pages of criminals., or Satmar pages. But to go after YCT like that is just low. I don’t agree with that hashkafah but I respect it, and their commitment to Halacha 95% of the time :).

    #1048120

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    Good point. I don’t think my filter allows it.

    Anyhow, it seems you were doing edits on random articles. In three days, you should be good to go.

    #1048121

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I’m already good to go. I made the username a long time ago.

    #1048122

    Calling YCT similar to the Taliban is just funny. I disagree with them halachicallly but in no way are they violent or rude.

    #1048123

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    rationalfrummie: Where do you see that the Taliban is rude?

    #1048124

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    Shkoyach popa!

    #1048125

    Torah613:

    When the Taliban were in control of parts of Afghanistan, they burned secular books sold in stores, destroyed priceless museum artifacts, and humiliated dissidents. They also ruthlessly killed many people. My apologies- calling them rude is the understatement of the century.

    Popa comparing YCT to the Taliban is so offensive, and so ignorant.

    #1048126

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Popa comparing YCT to the Taliban is so offensive, and so ignorant.

    I wasn’t comparing them to the Taliban. I was setting up a continuum of society’s treatment of women, with one end being American society and the other end being the Taliban. And then I said that YCT is closer to the Taliban’s end, and obviously, I am even closer.

    The fact that you are reading that as an insult says a lot more about you than about me, YCT, or the Taliban.

    #1048127

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    I had a troll that lasted a good four months before it was overwritten. I’m not even sure the overwriter knew I was trolling. It was in the article for Edah, an “orthodox” organization committed to finding heterim for everything. I simply quoted my Rosh HaYeshiva in the article, “The organization derives their name from the passage in Exodus Ad matai ha’Edah ha’ra’ah ha’zot”

    #1048128

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Well, it was interesting reading the talk page, anyway.

    But YCT has much more people than the yeshivish world does who are internet savvy. I shudder to think of what they could do to our wikipedia pages. So on second thought, maybe it’s just as well it got edited.

    #1048129

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    “The organization derives their name from the passage in Exodus Ad matai ha’Edah ha’ra’ah ha’zot”

    You spelled the passuk wrong. Don’t worry, I fixed it. 😉

    #1048130

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    But YCT has much more people than the yeshivish world does who are internet savvy. I shudder to think of what they could do to our wikipedia pages. So on second thought, maybe it’s just as well it got edited.

    There’s nothing they could do on our wikipedia pages that isn’t already all over the blogosphere.

    The reason I did what I did, is that they put on a public perception which is really very different than what they are. So they pretend to be all liberal and egalitarian, and they harshly condemn any non-egalitarian practices that we have–when they actually share most of them!

    Why do you think they got upset when I posted on their page that they don’t do same-sex marriage? I’m not upset if someone says that about my yeshiva! Why do you think they deleted that they require mechitza’s? I am happy to say that my yeshiva has a mechitza and requires its graduates to have one.

    Because they want to create a perception that they have egalitarian equality. That’s why.

    yah, the talk page is kind of amusing.

    #1048131

    So fine. They are fairly traditional, but willing to make halachic changes and be maikil, as well as misusing halachic concepts like kavod briyos and kavod tzibbur. That doesn’t mean they’re hypocritical though- I don’t think they claim to be completely liberal, or open to everything.

    The very fact that they have mechitzahs, oppose same-sex marriage, and keep Shabbos shows they do have some boundaries and generally care about Judaism and Halacha in general. Otherwise, they’d be reform or conservative, without marketing themselves as orthodox at

    All they claim is that they’re more egalitarian than most frum Jews, and that is true.

    #1048132

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    yah, the talk page is kind of amusing.

    Kind of.

    #1048133

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    The very fact that they have mechitzahs, oppose same-sex marriage, and keep Shabbos shows they do have some boundaries and generally care about Judaism and Halacha in general.

    Or, it shows that they’re smart enough to realize that they would not attract anyone if they were so blatantly non halachic.

    #1048134

    That’s not being fair. They know their views are unpopular, and they would be welcomed a lot more in non-orthodox communities. However, they don’t do that because they still care about most of Halacha.

    #1048135

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    They deleted my edits. Probably someone from here mosered me, but I understand; all’s fair in love and war.

    It is quite funny that they are deleting my edits. After all, the people deleting it know that what I said is true, and nobody would deny it, and my sourcing is good. They’re blaming it on this thread, but there is no req of motives on wikipedia. It doesn’t say much about their intellectual honesty.

    #1048136

    lol I have no idea how wikipedia works, but according to recent studies it’s nearly as accurate as encyclopedia britannica. I guess they crack down on subjectivity in articles, especially in this extreme case.

    #1048137

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    PBA: You’re right.

    Why do you think they got upset when I posted on their page that they don’t do same-sex marriage? I’m not upset if someone says that about my yeshiva! Why do you think they deleted that they require mechitza’s? I am happy to say that my yeshiva has a mechitza and requires its graduates to have one.

    Good point.

    DaasYochid: Or, it shows that they’re smart enough to realize that they would not attract anyone if they were so blatantly non halachic.

    Deserves to be repeated.

    It is quite funny that they are deleting my edits. After all, the people deleting it know that what I said is true, and nobody would deny it, and my sourcing is good. They’re blaming it on this thread, but there is no req of motives on wikipedia. It doesn’t say much about their intellectual honesty.

    Agreed.

    #1048138

    I don’t think you’re being dan l’kaf zechus. I have no idea what their motivations are, but overall they observe Halacha much more than non-frum do- it shows they care.

    DY says they wouldn’t attract members if they wer blatantly non-halachic- what about the non religious?? They don’t associate with those movements for a reason- they have some principles.

    #1048139

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    If they really care about halachah, why do they distort it so terribly? They’re working straight out if the old conservative playbook.

    #1048140

    I’ve told you. They keep Shabbos, kashrus, go to shul, fast on tzomim, some women cover their hair, teach Gemara, daven, wear kippahs and tzitzis, and many do taharas hamishpachah. Does that sound like non-religious Judaism to you?

    #1048141

    rationalfrummie,

    there is a moshol – I think its in the Shaarei Teshiva L’Rabeinu Yona – if someone were to tell a king “I will listen to everything you ask of me and follow all your rules – except for one which makes no sense to me,” how will the king react? Will he consider him a loyal subject because he keeps 99% of the rules or will he throw him in jail for daring to suggest that he gets to decide which of the king’s rules make enough sense to be kept.

    None of us are perfect but at least we strive for perfection and understand that what we dont do right is our own shortcoming. But when we make a movement which says 95% of the Torah should be kept but the rest is outdated…that is very far from torah judaism.

    #1048142

    Come and see how the melech hamelachim is different than a basar v’dam melech! God is merciful, we should be as well (imitatio dei). If they really sincerely follow 95% of Halacha, I think I can honestly be mochel them even though they’re wrong.

    And Comparing them to heterodox movements is just wrong, as you admit.

    #1048144

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If they really sincerely follow 95% of Halacha, I think I can honestly be mochel them even though they’re wrong.

    To the contrary, movements which are very similar to Judaism are the most dangerous because people have a hard time distinguishing. This is why it is said that chazal were very happy when christianity stopped keeping mitzvos. And why I will be very happy when Open Orthodoxy stops keeping all mitzvos.

    And Comparing them to heterodox movements is just wrong, as you admit.

    No, I do not admit that. If a person keeps even 100% of the mitzvos, but believes that halacha is not incumbent on him, he is just as bad as someone who keeps nothing.

    These apikorsim think that halacha is not incumbent on them, and that they can change for reasons that are not allowed. They’re right in the same camp with Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Baptist, Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Moslem, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Niviei HaBaal, etc.

    #1048145

    benignuman
    Participant

    “These apikorsim think that halacha is not incumbent on them, and that they can change for reasons that are not allowed.”

    What makes you think that YCT believes that halacha is not incumbent on them?

    I don’t know too many YCT aligned people, but the few I have met did not believe that.

    #1048146

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Ben: I think they believe some sort of halacha is incumbent on them, the same way that Christians do.

    Christians are not using the same halachic process to arrive at what is incumbent, and that is why they are not part of our camp. Similarly, YCT is not using the same halachic process to arrive at what is incumbent, and that is why they are not part of my camp.

    Beis shammai was part of our camp, even though they would marry a tzaras habas, because they were using the same process and simply reached a different conclusion. The tzedukim were using a different process, and that is why they were not part of our camp. (What process the tzedukim used is not clear to me; I am skeptical of the second grade pshat that they didn’t hold of any torah sh’baal peh.)

    And I quite look forward to the day when we’ll all consider them tzedukim, and they will consider us the same. And YU guys will wonder if they can have interfaith dialogue with them.

    #1048147

    benignuman
    Participant

    Popa,

    In what way are they not using the same process as us? Are you sure you are not confusing bad svaras with bad process?

    #1048148

    That’s not okay. They do follow most halachos and care. The only problems are womens issues, and a few other kulahs. Are they really as bad as Zoroastrians in your opinion? Wow. That’s quite sad you feel this way about other Jews that believe in God, learn Chumash and Gemara and are shomer mitzvos.

    For the record, the Sadducees (tzedukim) did in fact reject Torah she’be’al pen, and only though Torah she’bichsav had authority.

    Durthermore, YCT uses the same halachic process many Orthodox Jews do for 90% of the issues. For that they should be respected. This is a far cry from the reform who saw Halacha as primitive, and ignored it altogether. YCT clearly does not ignore Halacha, otherwise they’d serve pork, be mechalel Shabbos, and reject the Torah as being divinely authored. The fact that they don’t do ANY of those things shows they’re a lot closer to you than you think they are.

    Broadly painting many Jews that care about their yiddishkeit and Halacha with the brush of avodah zarah is so offensive. Open orthodoxy will not stop keeping all the mitzvos, because for the most part, they ACTUALLY CARE.

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