July 24, 2011 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #598182
I decided that I will never allow my kids to do gellila.
I don’t understand when they ask 10-13 year old kids to do it. Gellila is for the most pathetic member of the congregation, usually an older single- and if there are more than one, the one who is perceived as more of a neb.
So when you ask my 10 year old to do gellila, you are treating him like a neb.
My kid is not a neb. He is single because he is only 10, not because his mother is picky. And I will not allow you to treat him like some sort of pathetic person who deserves to do gellila for you.
If you can’t find an older single, do it yourself.July 24, 2011 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #1186685
it wasn’t obvious to me… I was gonna *roar*!!July 24, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #1186686
Th Gemara says Hagolel Notel Schar Kineged Kulom. the Golel of the Torak takes all the reward more than everyone else. Its the Choshuvste job.July 24, 2011 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1186687
That may be true, but I am not about to let my kids be treated like garbage for that.
Besides, while it may be true that it is actually choshuv, the intentions of the person giving it and everyone else matters. You would not feel very choshuv being a king if it was considered a job for incompetents.July 24, 2011 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1186688
“Th Gemara says Hagolel Notel Schar Kineged Kulom. the Golel of the Torak takes all the reward more than everyone else. Its the Choshuvste job.”
According to all opinions that HaGolel is the person doing “gelila” rather it is the one doing “Hagbah”.July 24, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1186689
whoa! popa, are you calling the Torah garbage? definitely seems like it. nothing that has to do with the Torah is garbage! how dare you say something like that! and who are you to say who is a pathetic neb?????? you must be one really judgmental guy who holds no importance for Torah. that is the way you bring yourself across.
in my shul, it is definitely not the way you say it is! i don’t know what type of shul you daven in! but if it is the way you say it is in your shul, i think they just called your name for g’lila!
i am so disappointed in what you wrote! that’s horrible!July 24, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1186690
“Garbage” for doing a Mitzva.Please put you pride in the back seat the Torahs pride is more important.Show your kids the beauty of the mitzvah, learn it with them inside so they grow up being mechavev the Helige Torah velomdeha. Run to do it like its the best thing( even though it feels degrading) the outside will be meorer the pnimious and it will be a great example for your kids. They should grow up to be big Talmidei Chachomim.July 24, 2011 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1186691
JS: I agree. The torah is more important than our pride.
However, I still think my kids will feel like nebs, and I won’t allow that.
yummy: I’m not calling the torah garbage. I’m calling being treated like a neb as being treated like garbage.July 24, 2011 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #1186692
should I be insulted when the gabbai asks me to do glilah?July 24, 2011 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1186693
if this thread is just a joke, then what’s the point?! to have people misunderstand & get riled up/upset? :/July 24, 2011 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1186694
should I be insulted when the gabbai asks me to do glilah?
Depends. Look around at who else he usually asks. If it is anything like most shuls I’ve been in, you should be insulted.July 24, 2011 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #1186696
The last RebelMember
I understood that galeela is given to children because they can’t get aliya not sure why you feel otherwiseJuly 24, 2011 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1186697
Poppa, do you have a job? Kids? Do yourself a favor, and do something productive with your time instead of getting people riled up and upset.
(BTW, is this one of the occasions when you’re WAY over?)July 24, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1186698
Its all how you feel and a lot of people unfortunately feel that way when it comes to doing Mitzvos . With all do respect your feelings are misplaced. If your kids are feeling like nebs its rubbing off from you be mechazek yourself in limud hatorah Lishma Besimcha and you perception will change.
I WOULD RATHER BE A NEB AND BE WITH THE TORAH THAN CHS VESHALOM LEHEPOCH.
And Hagbah is respectfull because you could show everyone how strong you are.
WAKE UPJuly 24, 2011 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1186699
am yisrael chaiParticipant
There’s nothing funny using the Torah as the butt of sarcasm, even though your point (or what I think is your point) may be valid.
Could you come up with another sarcastic scenario that will get people upset? TIA 🙂July 24, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1186700
popa: Wasn’t this supposed to be last night’s Motzei Shabbos troll thread?July 24, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1186701
pba~ you also had a line up top explaining that you were joking that was deleted.
not funny, & I’ve got QUITE a sense of good humor!!July 24, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #1186702
your children will only feel like nebs if you give that impression over to them! but, if you show them that the Torah is so Kadosh, and that it is such a special honor to do g’lila, or anything that has to do with the Torah, then they will not feel like, and not be considered nebs.
two points i would like to share: One of the jobs of the kohein in the Bais Hamikdosh was to take the ashes from on the Mizbeach and “dispose of them”, so to speak. basically, his job was to “take out the garbage”. but do you think he thought of it that way?????? NO WAY , NO HOW!!!!!!!!! NEVER!!!!!!!!!! it was a job in the House of Hashem, such a holy holy job, and the kohein never thought of it as a lowly job, even though it is seemingly (to us) the lowest job in the Bais Hamikdosh. but no one ever thought of it that way!
secondly, we learn from the meraglim that only if you consider yourself lowly, will you be low in the eyes of others. change your attitude! change the way you see this heilige avodah, and make your children see it the right way, for what it really is, so they will be able to properly do this avodah!July 24, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #1186703
Could you come up with another sarcastic scenario that will get people upset? TIA 🙂
It isn’t so easy, y’know.
I understood that galeela is given to children because they can’t get aliya not sure why you feel otherwise
Of course. And given to nebs because they are pathetic and we don’t want them to think they are real members of the community.July 24, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #1186704
am yisrael chaiParticipant
If you are really concerned about your kids’ feelings, perhaps you should consider how they’ll feel in a few years when they discover that their dad authored this thread…July 24, 2011 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1186705
How dare you talk that way about OUR ????! How dare you say ????? is for nebs! I am proud when the men in my family get ?????!
In fact, we learned in school that the most ???? people get even the menial jobs!
??? schlepped the heavy ???? – were they unhappy? NO!
The ????? did the ????? ???? – were they unhappy? NO!
Because they were proud to serve ??! To them, these jobs weren’t menial! And they shouldn’t be menial to us either!
????? has such ?????? that we should be proud to do it! This job is to dress the ???? in it’s royal clothing! Is it not? Any job that is in some way serving ?? has ??????, and whoever gets these jobs should be honored!July 24, 2011 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #1186706
basket of radishesParticipant
What is Gelilah? “Reserved for the most pathetic person in the synagogue… an older unmarried male…????” Sounds very discriminatory to me. You aren’t going to be a Torah Jew if you discriminate and make the older unwedded males or other minority feel ashamed. This is not the Torah that I know.July 24, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #1186707
People: You are making a mistake.
You cannot divorce perception from the picture. When people are given gellila, it is because they are perceived as nebs. That is the simple truth. And because of that, they should be insulted.
If someone gives you a diamond, because he thinks it is garbage, and says you deserve garbage; you may be happy you got a diamond, but you will still be insulted.
I am sure it is actually chashuv. But that certainly does not excuse the reshaim who do this. And it certainly does not make anyone feel any better.July 24, 2011 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #1186708
i can’t get over this thread. am yisrael chai is right, and i hope for your kids sake, they never find out that you were the one who started this thread!
i hope your kids are taught by their rabbeim how chashuv this job really is. and if you choose to continue drilling this crazy idea into your kids heads, its time for you to move from wherever you live and come to where i live, where we have proper respect for the Torah and the people who are privileged to honor it in any way!
and, by the way, where i daven, it’s usually the bar mitzvah boys and older who get g’lila. not the so called “nebachs”.
if where you daven, they really give ppl kibbudim according to their “neb status”, then the ppl who run your shul, should be fired and you should get people with ahavas habrios, ahavas hatorah and their priorities straight, to run the shul. there is no excuse for ppl to be called up for something because they are a “nebach case”. do you think Hashem gave out the jobs in the Bais Hamikdosh according to ppl’s nebach status? i think not.July 24, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1186709
A place where anyone regards a mitzvah as a slight is a spiritual sewer. In most shuls, the glila is given to a child to include him in the joy of participation in the mitzvah of the tzibbur. I have seen forward (rearward?) thinking places where a literate child is given Maftir. You should pick up and daven elswhere Pop, this attitude is a blight on the whole enterprise.July 24, 2011 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #1186710
pba, i know i sound really harsh, but please understand that this is our Torah we are talking about! (and you did an amazing job getting me riled up, i mamash am at a loss for words, although you cannot see that from my posts.)
seriously, i am not mad at you, i am mad at the situation that lead to your having this perception. and if indeed you did bring this perception upon yourself, well, i hope to meet you one day so we can have a long talk… until then, i’ll try to set your perception straight thru the cr 🙂July 24, 2011 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #1186711
I feel good to be part of the NEB groupJuly 24, 2011 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1186712
Neb pride!July 24, 2011 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #1186713
Guys, Wake Up!! Papa explained himself! He is trying to make a point of how we are all guilty of treating older single guys. He has just the same right to Shlishi (or Shishi, if your chassidish) than anyone else.
Popa was NOT trying to protect his kids from feeling like nebs, he was showing US that WE treat older singles like nebs, just because they haven’t found the right one yet. We have to learn how to treat others regardless of their marital status, height, weight, looks, and any other insignificant way. Yes, Gelila is important. But somehow it lost its chashivus in giving it to “the Shul neb”.
There should be NO shul neb. No neighbor neb. NEVER. Every single person in the world outshines someone else in a specific way. That’s why Hashem created him, because he can be part of society in a way that YOU CANNOT!!
Its a good lesson for the three weeks.July 24, 2011 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #1186714
popa’s weekly trollJuly 24, 2011 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1186715
Thank you zeidy. I wish you were my kids’ zeidy.July 24, 2011 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #1186716
basket of radishesParticipant
There is no such thing as a “neb” “nebbish” or “nebach” by Torah Definitions. This is ambivalent colloquialism that has sadly permeated out Jewish communities and is quite discriminatory.
Torah defines the underserved portion of our communities as indigent, poor, wicked, foolish, disgruntled, ambivalent, unorthodox, wretched, petty, childless (and that is not a derogatory thought), pain stricken, evil, narcissistic, discheveled, unworthy, sick, ridiculed, spent, tasteless and likely many other ways. Calling someone a nebbish makes you the “nebbish” in my eyes. I will never use that disgusting and dirty way of describing a human being who has some worth.
Sad that our communities that are so cohesive have such an ugly way of talking when we have Torah to guide us instead.July 24, 2011 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1186717
I wish you were my kids’ zeidy.
You’ll have to marry his daughter to accomplish that.July 24, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1186718
popa, if you truly started this thread to highlight the fact that we are not treating older singles with the proper respect, there was a different way to do it. you could have started a thread titled “how we treat older singles” or something of the sort. mocking avodas Hashem and kavod haTorah was totally wrong of you and there is no denying that. if you really want to start a thread on how older singles are mistreated, start a new thread. the end.July 24, 2011 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1186719
(He’s yanking your chains, people…)
There is no such thing as a nebby kibud, regarding the Torah.July 24, 2011 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #1186720
Oomis: really? you think the intent of everyone else makes no difference?
Would you think that if you were, say; 45 years old, a talmid chochom, with a good career, and all you were good enough for was gellila when there were no 10 year olds to do it?July 24, 2011 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1186721
where i daven anyone can be given gelila…i dont know whats wrong with you or your shulJuly 24, 2011 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #1186722
All you were good enough for????? No one should be so kovod conscious that they turn down ANY kibud related to taking the Torah out and putting it away. And, being a woman, I would be thrilled and delighted to even be able to TOUCH the Torah every Shabbos (an option that is not given to me) much less be offered the kovod to be goleil it. It would sadden me to think that any man would feel “cheated” to be offered glilah.July 24, 2011 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #1186723
Oomis: Gimme a break. This has nothing to do with kavod.
Not wanting to be humiliated and degraded is not about kavod, it is about being a mensch.
And I know woman drool over the idea of touching a torah, but that just proves my point. The only reason you want to is because you feel slighted that you aren’t permitted to. And that is so. But if we go down this track, we will just get off topic. So one response per poster, and I will not respond to them.July 24, 2011 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #1186724
PBA – YOU got gelilah this shabbos by any chance?…July 24, 2011 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #1186725
PBA – YOU got gelilah this shabbos by any chance?…
My wife did. At the women’s minyan.July 24, 2011 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1186726
was she upset or glad?….July 24, 2011 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1186727
No response needed. I just cannot fathom why you would look at this as insulting to your kovod (which is why I think you are yanking our chains). Are you equally insulted when a 13 year old boy gets maftir?July 24, 2011 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1186728
She was glad they thought her sheitel looked real, but mad that they were abusing her.July 24, 2011 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #1186729
oomis: As zeidy pointed out, my issue is not with the kids who get it, it is with the nebs who get it.
And if my shul only gave maftir to 13 year olds and nebs, I would be mad about the nebs also.July 24, 2011 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1186730
oomis dont take him so serious, I dont think PBA ie even married yet (please correct me if I’m wrong).
As to maftir the gemarah in Megillah says that in order to apease the one getting maftir (which is an inferior aliyah because even a kid under bar mitzvah can get it) he also gets Musaf.July 24, 2011 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1186732
When I was a youngster opening the Aron HaKodesh for Anim Zemiros was considered beneath anyone’s dignity. An elderly Yid, who was a pillar of the community, said that he will take the Kovid himself until the community will learn that it is an honor to serve HaShem and His Torah.July 24, 2011 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1186733
“oomis: As zeidy pointed out, my issue is not with the kids who get it, it is with the nebs who get it.”
PBA – I have to agree with you, a 30 year old single should not get glilah while his 19 year old married cusin (or sometimes even brother) gets an aliyah.July 24, 2011 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #1186740
popa – i don’t mean to be rude, especially to someone who is older than I am, but i just wanted to understand why you won’t even hear the posters’ comments. no matter what the poster says, you argue with them. why can’t you just listen to us?
all i’m trying to say (like others are also trying to say) is why don’t you change your perception and then perhaps others in your shul and other shuls will change their perceptions as well. tell your children and other shul members that it is an honor to get called up for ?????. any kavod is better than none at all. show them by accepting the honor yourself. then people won’t have this perception anymore.
if i came across harsh, i’m really sorry. i didn’t mean to sound that way. i just want you to at least take people’s posts into consideration instead of arguing everyone else’s opinions.July 24, 2011 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #1186741
“I still think my kids will feel like nebs, and I won’t allow that.”
Tell them that they are getting the most important role, and that unfortunately in our times it is not as respected. Show them the source in the gemara and tell them to be proud! And especially tell them not to be worried about what others think when they fulfill a mitzvah!!!
“if where you daven, they really give ppl kibbudim according to their “neb status”, then the ppl who run your shul, should be fired and you should get people with ahavas habrios, ahavas hatorah and their priorities straight, to run the shul.”
Or change shuls to one that respects our traditions.
“I would be thrilled and delighted to even be able to TOUCH the Torah every Shabbos”
There do exist Orthodox synagogues where you could — in fact the three closest ones to where I live allow this.
I use getting an aliyah or not getting an aliyah as a mussar lesson. When I find myself getting resentful that someone else whom I think is less deserving gets an aliyah and I don’t, it is a good reminder that NO amount of honor, NO amount of prestige, NO amount of respect will EVER be enough for my ego. When I get offered an honor, I take it. I often get hagbah because I am trusted not to drop the sefer torah.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.