Following the p’sak halacha (Rabbinical ruling) by Rav Chaim Kanievsky Shlita [reported HERE on YWN], posters have been pasted on walls in Yerushalayim’s Meah Shearim neighborhood, with a ‘black list’ of stores where Arabs are still employed.
Neighborhood activists have been working to compel store owners to comply with the ruling which was issued following the murder of eight yeshiva students in Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva last month.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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46 Responses
Nu. so where is the list? how can we not buy there, if u do not publish list
oh puleez pinnupaul, I learnt from a friend how its done.. you walk into a store and inquire if they employ arabs.. big appel pizza is one plce..
Ridiculous – the Owners (read also Yeshivas) don’t have money to employ Jews. It will just cause many places to collapse r”l
Did someone ask Rav Kanievsky.shlita if he sanctions creating black lists?
I find all too often Kinayim (who don’t REALLY fear Hashem, but rather are looking to bully other Jews) jumping at the opportunity to take P’sakim of Gedolim to the extreme and do things like this without even consulting the one’s they claim to be following. I bet none of them ask Rav Kanievsky, shlita if they should make a black list.
I’d like to know where these “defenders” were a month ago before the terrorist attack at YRK. Why weren’t they decrying the employment of Arabs instead of Jews back then. I bet if you would have asked any of them two months ago why employers are hiring Arabs instead of Jews they would have quickly retorted (jestingly at that) “No Jew would take those type of belittling Jews! That’s why the y hire Arabs.”
May we be spared from Kaniyim and the damage they do to Klal Yisroel!
R Chaim said they have to be fired from all places not just yeshivos?
It said on yeshiva world just from yeshivos
Even a simple mind could understand this ruling. The Ribono Shel Olam demands that we make hishtadlus and not rely on miracles. Whoever thinks that R. Chaim’s ruling is inappropriate, should go and learn a few things, the first thing is emunas chachamim.
Why only Yeshivos?
The same act can just as easily take place in a busy pizza shop or store as in a yeshiva. If it saves ONE life, is it not worth it?
Besides, it may employ a few more Yidden. Yes, it will increase overhead a little, and hence prices, but if all do it, the prices will all go up together, and the stores will not hurt.
Who would mind paying a few cents more for a slice of pizza to know that all the employees in the back are Jewish, and that none would come out with a machine gun hidden under his white apron, and cut down more of our women and children C”V.
Sometimes these “Bans, New Issurim” and other “tikuns” cost us, or are a bit of a pain. But they are not necessarily done to be bullies. Many kanoim are people whose ahavas Yisroel is so strong that they see danger to other Jews and want to save those Jews. Sometimes the danger is to their physical beings and lives, sometimes to their spiritual lives.
After 120, when I have to go in front of the Beis Din SheLimala, I think I will appreciate the avairos that kanoim saved me from.
Besides, just a thought, should we continue to give profits to business owners who ignore our safety and ignore the will of our rabbonim?
RAV KANIEVSKY IS ONE OF OUR NATIONAL TREASURES–A TRUE GODOL HADOR.
YOU IGNORE HIS WORDS AT YOUR OWN RISK!
I would have worried about antagonizing fired Arabs and inciting vengeance, but R’ Chaim undoubtedly knows better than I do (I mean that genuinely). Still, everyone should daven that no harm comes to anyone who fires Arabs, or to anyone else for that matter.
These are Kach people who have been influenced by Zionism, something gedolim such as Rav Shach or the Brisker Rov would have been ashamed of.
My regular store (makolet Sinai on Rechov Givat Shaul / Ktav Sofer, Jerusalem, opposite the Zupnik shul) employs an Arab worker, and they will continue to have him employed there, and they will proudly ignore this.
If there would be a problem with an Arab worker there, the rov of the neighborhood, Rav Avrohom Yitzchok Ulman shlita, who is a chever of the badatz of the Edah haChareidis and lives next door to the makolet (the rebbetzin only buys there), would tell us/them.
Shouldn’t Mea Sharim follow Rabbi Eliashev’s rulings, rather than his son-in-law who lives in B’nai B’rach? AFAIK, Rabbi Eliashev has not said that Jews cannot employ Arabs.
shalom in Israel:
you know better than the gadol hador?
THAT’s where the problems REALLY are. thinking u know better.
Where will we find a Shabbos Goy?
godolwannabe:
Not to worry, Natan Levi from Lakewood will soon be there
The real problem here is that Jews don’t generally make good pizza. Since Arabs don’t either, perhaps we could start importing Italians. It’s really not that far away and it would solve the problem for everybody!
If a Godol says something how can anyone question what was said. Anyone questioning a Goodols Pesak, should be ashamed of themselves
to #12..you remind me of the saying “we should not antagonize those who want to kill us, because they will want to kill us”
No one questioned Rav Chaim Kanievsky’s gadlus or his psak. As far as I see it, the only issues are:
1) Did Rav Chaim say that stroes and businesses should also fire their Arabs? I don’t see that in his psak.
2) Did Rav Chaim say letters should be published with stores listed that didn’t fire their Arabs, and to shter their parnassah? I think very likely not.
Just for the record for anyone who gave a hoot about what I wrote above #5, I have a typo. It should have stated , “No Jew would take those type of belittling JOBS”. Sorry. My bad! 🙁
People.
I have absolutely no love for the Arabs. I have never been accused of “ahavat chinam” towards them and anyone who knows me knows why.
That being said, IMHO the creation of a list of stores that employ arabs and by extension ignore the Gadol’s ruling and hence should be boycotted, is reminiscent of our not-so-distant past. Being of a younger generation I have no first-hand experience (thank g-d) but I have heard and read about the 1930s in Germany where similar lists went up around the neighborhoods.
For all those out there who take offense: I AM NOT COMPARING THE PSAK TO THE GERMAN REICH, but the methods employed by certain biryonim to enforce the da’as torah are a little extreme. Enough that these store owners ignore the Rav at their own risk and they will pay for their mistake at the true beis din come the day. But for now, and until a psak goes out advocating this method, I would suggest taking down the posters.
And, in agreement with various people above, I too do not believe these activists are l’shaim Shamayim. I had the zechut of living in Israel for 15 years, many of those in Jerusalem, and witnessed first-hand that many of these people are just in it for something to do. It makes them feel big to go around hassling people “all in the name of religion” but not one could actually state clearly they were sent on their mission by a Rav, rather they cynically took it upon themselves to be our guardians.
Im Hashem lo Yishmor Eir, Shav Shaked Shomer.
“ein somchin al haneiss”
do we need more than what happened?
BUT, if the chachomim do not agree to this “rule”, and we keep our arab workers, we are relying ON THE GEDOLIM, and NOT ON A NEISS. whichever way, emunas tzadikim is the word.
the question, what are our GEDOLIM saying?
#3 “It will just cause many places to collapse r”l” – so we let the arabs stay so there can be another tragedy ר”ל?? Thats – Ridiculous!!
It’s amazing how it seems that some people who always are anti arab in every way but when it comes to a Godol’s psak they prefer to be pro-arab, liberal etc. I guess it gives a good understanding of Daas Baal Habayis versus Daas Torah. Even when the Gedolim pasken the way they like (as if Gedolim need their approval but that’s another subject) suddenly they are against it… We need Moshiach – badly…
I think there are two issues being mixed up here….
1. The black lists on the billboards – which I do not hear that R’ Chaim sanctioned.
2. The fact that it IS in our best interest – safety and community-wise to employ our brethren and to encourage/endorse our vendors who do so.
thanx for the address of the grocery. rav ullman is a distant cousin (by marriage).
how about posting the yeshivot that are hiring arabs!!!
as for pizza, only italians make great pizza. arabs make good pita. (unless you mean “lahma ajin”, but thats a meat product, so you run into bishul yisrael issues. and thats a syrian delicacy ($10 a dozen here in the us, in the freezer case of a good super. kollel on 39th st has it, be sure to buy your ukranian shmurah maza there at the same time $8.99 a pound))
11, 15, 19, and anyone I might have missed, I for one have the appropriate reverence. But Rav Chaim’s own son, sheyichyu “lita, has been publishing ads stating that his father’s name is abscribed to things he hasn’t said or endorsed. Sadly, we may feel skeptical till we can be sure the sources for such statements are 100% reliable.
I think the questions here are directed at the blacklist which rides the coattails of a psak issued by R’ Chaim Shlit”a. It is very appropriate to ask if the creators of the black list even mentioned its existence to him.
#16
don’t we have already enough (MORE THEN ENOUGH:)..) russians, romanians, etc, etc, in our country?
if this sanctioned by Rav Kanievsky, why isnt there a Kol Korie signed by other Gedolim? And least wht isn’t there one signed by Rav Kanievsky himself?
rebshalom:
You want to DAVKA patronize stores who employ Arabs? I think with a few ticks of your keyboard (obviously while your internal hard drive was infected with the amiratzus virus), you managed to tick off EVERY faction of every group which frenquent this site.
Thank you providing the unity these pages so sorely needed.
VC
Most of the hotels have Arab help. Does that mean we cannot stay at hotels?
if im not mistaken: one who says something against a rav in this case a GADOL HADOR, is called a KOFER!!!!! MEANING ITS KEFIRAH!
THE GERER REBBE TOLD HIS PEOPLE TO REMOVE ALL ARAB WORKERS FROM THE GERER YESHIVOS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.
NOW, THE OTHER CHAREIDIM ARE FINALLY CATCHING UP!
WHEN DANGER TO LIFE IS INVOLVED, YOU HAVE TO GO TO EXTREMES.
to #23, #24 see original article march 16 post #27,#36,#46…http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/15643/Rav+Chaim+Kanievsky+Calls+on+Yeshivos+to+Fire+Arabs.html…. also article march 18 post #19…http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=15746… also mr flatbusher. your posts on the other 2 articles you seem to much concerned with yishamael offspring…see those posts and then decide if collective punishment and
“thats what the germans did” is shayech here. also, there is such a thing as collectve punisment see parshes kedoshim by “moilech, eir hanidachas,and you know why, they all want us dead…remember palistinians jumping and dancing 9/11, after merkas slaughter, handing out candies etc. etc. see thse posts…
Yeshiva Medresh Shmuel in Sharei Chesed proudly has no Arabs working fot them!!
to #42 shvacher kop…where does it read that this is “ier hanidachas situation …” juat a rayoh that there is such a thing as collective punishment in the torah….i see you also come with this “out of context business”..ishmales offspring also come with same “out of context” cliche’s regarding thier ko–, also seems you didnt read all those posts we refered to…also can you clarify from our post how you came to conclusion of “kvetching”..we didnt mean to strike raw nerve…
flatbusher,
I’d like to know where I can come get a Brocha from you as apparently you consider yourself a match to R’ Chaim. By the way – how many talmidim/chasiddim do you have? It’s really nice that someone at your stature comes to us on YWN and provides us with his eminences Rabbincal opinions.
anne – You spoke well! 🙂
#13.. most kach people I know are NOT zionists.. going back 10-15 years.. I remember sitting with the kahanists at hatikva at a rally against the gush katif expulsion and infuriating the crowd.
I dont understand, its a psak din in shulchan aruch to give a jew parnasa over a goy..
#24.. your a sad sick man to even bring that up.. we have millions of arabs who DAILY attempt to kill jews are you meshuga ?
What about the arabs from the har nof makolet that planed to kill rav ovadia yosef? setting aside that he isnt YOUR gadol he still is a jew.. a rav..
There were cases of arab resturant workers planing to poisin the food, arab workers killing their jewish employer v’chulu v’chulu v’chulu..
Oh and arab’s runing of with jewish girls is not a issue for you either ?
If ANYTHING.. our arab neighbers are like 1929 chevron.. 1930’s germany.. “itbach al yahud”
Please get some seichal before you say something wrong.
#23.. collective punishment ? WQhich version of shulchan aruch do you pasken by ? how about “pikuach nefesh”
Your comment borders on comedy.. the halacha esav soneh es yakov must also be collective punishment.
Trust me, the arabs were killing jews since islam was invented 1300 years ago.. they dont need or want excuses.
*NEWSFLASH* davening at the kotel incites and provokes the arabs.. maybe just not go there so as not to incite them?
The Rav, Shlita, paskened that they should be hired, and indeed fired. When did he sanction blacklisting?
Should we now create a blacklist against those who may not follow Rav Kanievsky’s p’sak in Hilchos Shabbos, or perhaps Teffilin? When does it end?
To those who have screamed “Daas Torah” above, and made snide comments such as “So you know better than the Gadol???” — what do you even know of the p’sak, other than a synopsis from YWN. Did you see a T’shuva? Did you ask him all the details yourself? What do you know? NOTHING!!!
Being M’shaabayd yourself to Daas Torah is 100% correct. But you should know what it is and if it was said.
thats the end of the jerusalem plaza
#46, Elchonon. I think you need to look up the definition of Zionism. “Zionism” does not mean “supporting the State of Israel”. It means “supporting the creation/existence of an ethnically ‘Jewish state’ in Eretz Yisroel” – and that is what they support.
If you say Kach are not Zionists, I’ll tell you that Moshe Hirsch, Yisroel Dovid Weiss and Moshe Aryeh Friedman are not anti-Zionists either.
PointedQuestions – Good points! 🙂 May I add, Has anybody bothered to ask other Poskim if they agree with his Psak?
When Rav Eliyashu, shlita and L’abdel bein Chaim L’Chaim, Rav Aurbach, ztl argued in halacha did anyone have the Chutzpa to say that one is right and the other was wrong?
This is Rav Kenievsky’s psak. If someone is a talmid of Rav Ovadya, Rav Sheinberg, Rav Eliashiv, or Rav Steinberg, do they have to follow Rav Kenievsky’s psak? Rav Kenievsky, shlita is a tremendous Gadol B’Torah, but if other Gedolim argue with him in this psak are we wrong to follow their psak instead?
I do not know what other Gedolim are holding and I’m not even too sure what Rav Kenievsky actually said. I’m personally choshesh that his words were taken out of context. Clarification is needed and I feel that people are jumping the gun. Does anyone know whether the people on this blacklist went to a gadol and asked a shila? Perhaps they went to Rav Kenievsky himself!
I think we need to give Dan L’Kav Zechus here!
I am no Neturei Kartanik, as those of you who read these comments should recognize my philosophy by now.
However, I am very turned off by the indiviudlas who run the country of Israel.
We are standing at the shloshim for the kedoshim who were murdered al kiddush hashem while learning torah. Yet, as of this date, the Israeli govt. has taken no retaliatory measures against the arabs yemach shmom lo’ad. Why, I ask?Is it because frum blood is worthless and cheap. Your typical secular Israelis thinks nothing of shomer shabbos yidden. I also want to state that this Israeli govt has frum yidden in it too. Whewre are they to authorize retaliatroy measures against the arab beheimos??
All the frum in govt. do is siphon off funds from the govt. for their own needs. This MUST stop.