Becoming a Rebbe in Cheder

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  • #615838
    Joseph
    Participant

    How much can a rebbe expect to earn (ballpark figure) in the NY area?

    #1087594
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Including heavily reduced tuition?

    #1087595
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    ballpark figure?

    .030 million

    #1087596
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t know too many rebbeim who make ends meet solely on their rebbe salary, even including tuition reduction.

    #1087597
    Joseph
    Participant

    Yes, including what tuition discount is provided.

    #1087598
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you’re looking for numbers, including tuition discounts makes it dependant on how many kids he has, so much more variable.

    #1087599
    Joseph
    Participant

    The variable can be defined. i.e. starting salary of $50K going to $70K in 3 years, plus 50% discount for all boys coming to the yeshiva he’s a rebbe in (or tuition of $X.XX/year per child instead of typical tuition of $Y.YY.)

    #1087600
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If he gets a job, or adjusting for that risk also?

    #1087601
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It can be defined that way, but someone who wants numbers is probably comparing it to other options.

    #1087602

    Depends in which community.

    in Eastern coast communities its at the minimum of 30k per year unless your doing special ed. or

    if your teaching in a more modern day school community & traveling they give more closer to between 40k-50k per year (but that also means you won’t be sending your children to that school. not only bec. modern but also cause its in a different town)

    in the Midwest of Chicago or other Midwest communities where tuition is much more expensive the rabbeim & teacher get paid more by a total different amount.

    #1087603
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    in the Midwest of Chicago or other Midwest communities where tuition is much more expensive the rabbeim & teacher get paid more by a total different amount.

    unfortunately, pure speculation. more than 40-50k? only on their wish list. I didn’t think tuition was higher but maybe it is. And tuition break is funny too. If you give me a 50% tuition break but with my income I would be on minimum tuition, you can’t call it a benefit.

    #1087604
    Joseph
    Participant

    Syag: MA said that the Midwest is higher than the East’s 30k; not than the modern school’s 40-50k.

    I would also presume he is speaking of entry-level starting salaries with the salaries rising given time and experience.

    #1087605
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I’m pretty certain there are no raises given time or experience.

    #1087606
    Joseph
    Participant

    You think rebbeim are salaried about the same much on their 10th year with the yeshiva as they were on their first year?

    #1087607
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you give me a 50% tuition break but with my income I would be on minimum tuition, you can’t call it a benefit.

    Agreed. Although it’s probably more comfortable to get it as part of negotiated salary than as a scholarship.

    You think rebbeim are salaried about the same much on their 10th year with the yeshiva as they were on their first year?

    They get regular raises. Also, some mosdos pay more than others, so an experienced rebve with a good reputation can move to a better paying job, or at least use that as leverage to get a raise where they are.

    #1087608
    Joseph
    Participant

    They get regular raises. Also, some mosdos pay more than others, so an experienced rebbe with a good reputation can move to a better paying job, or at least use that as leverage to get a raise where they are.

    This aspect seems to work about the same as it does in private industry.

    #1087609
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    but you would probably have to be living in a city where there are more than two schools.

    #1087610
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    This aspect seems to work about the same as it does in private industry.

    There’s a major difference, though. The upper limit of what the yeshiva can pay is determined by factors other than job performance. In private industry, the more valuable you are to your employer, the more they’ll pay you, because you’re making more money for them. That’s only true for a yeshiva to a very limited degree.

    but you would probably have to be living in a city where there are more than two schools

    That, or be a candidate to move to a different city.

    #1087611
    Joseph
    Participant

    Does anybody else agree or disagree with MA’s cited figures that rebbeim tend to start out at about $30,000 in the NY area and at about $40-50,000 in Modern Orthodox schools? Any ideas as to what the salary is after a few years on the job?

    #1087612
    catch yourself
    Participant

    Based on the Yeshiva at which I currently teach, as well as on other places which I have researched, starting in the mid-thirties for teaching half a day is pretty common.

    Some places do offer full-time jobs, with other classes or responsibilities in the afternoons.

    Not all Yeshivos (perhaps not even most) give regular raises.

    An important variable which can affect the real value of the salary is whether the school pays on time.

    Of course tuition, health insurance and other benefits are factors that vary from school to school.

    #1087613
    goofus
    Participant

    Joseph,

    At an MO school, most rebbes/morahs are only there from davening in the morning until the end of limudei kodesh(approximately noon or 1PM). These folks can expect to make 15k-25k, depending on the individual’s credentials/education and the school itself.

    There are some Judaic studies teachers that stick around all day, but they tend to have more than one role in the school (e.g. a Israel yeshiva guidance counselor). These people should expect to make in the 40k-50k range, but also tend to be more modern themselves, as they have a role in which student interaction and student relatabilty become vital characteristics. There have been frummies in these roles as well, though.

    -source: My years involved with several MO institutions in the NY area.

    #1087614
    newbee
    Member

    Off topic, but I remember in my high school yeshiva all the rebbeyim had a strike to raise wages, and they were completely justified, but in my 15 year old mind it was devastating seeing rabbis ask for more money. I couldn’t view them the same after.

    #1087615
    catch yourself
    Participant

    newbee – For the record, ?? ??? ruled that Rebbeim are not allowed to strike. If memory serves (I’m sure DY will correct me if necessary), this is because Rebbeim are not paid to teach; they are paid ??? ????. Once they have no other job, they are required to teach for free. If a Rebbe feels that he needs a different job, he is certainly free to take one, but he can not refuse to teach Torah because he needs money.

    #1087616

    Joseph

    after approximately 10 years-or more- of teaching many rabbeim tend to transfer to becoming principles or assistant principles (based on their experience but also due to their knowing how that school they have been working in runs) this of course is only due if the school is growing more classes & therefore needs more principles

    i.e. not all schools grow. some stay 1 to 3 classes per grade & that’s it after that there’s no more room for more growth because they do not want to grow, as it involves more then just finding a new rebbe for the additional class per grade in the years ahead.

    #1087617
    newbee
    Member

    catch yourself: by strike I mean an organized gathering of mutual protest- they never actually stopped working. So maybe strike is wrong term.

    #1087618
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    our rebbes also stay til about 1 and then they have others hired for the non-limudei kodesh. recently the afternoon classes have been taken by rebbes who are teaching both, but they try not to send a class thru the same rebbe twice.

    I don’t know what the afternoon position pays but I assume they are considered to be drawing two salaries this way.

    #1087619
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    They certainly don’t do it for free.

    This has become increasingly common, as I can see. A rebbe’s salary on its own rarely is enough to support a family.

    #1087620
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    As my name states, I live in CT. Far enough away from NY to enjoy open space, but within a 90 minute drive to NYC.

    That said, the close commute to NY is used by Yeshivos and Shuls to lower the pay rates for rebbeim and Rabbis. Applicants are told that it’s an easy trip in to Monsey, Queens or Brooklyn to see family, shop, eat, etc. Therefore you are not sacrificing as much as communities 3 hours or more away from the city and we can pay you less.

    Also, it is quite common for rebbeim to teach a full day in out of town day schools/Yeshivos. They may teach elementary in the morning and High School in the afternoon or vice versa.

    One of the biggest problems ion employment is that many of these Yeshivos (particularly Chabad) have become dynastic, employing mostly family members. Non family members tend to be hired for a year or so and when they seek a raise they are not retained and another beginner, who comes at beginner salary is hired.

    Tuition discount is not a selling point for employment, faculty kids attend free.

    #1087621
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Tuition discount is not a selling point for employment, faculty kids attend free.

    Free is cheaper than reduced. Why wouldn’t that be a selling point?

    #1087622
    lesschumras
    Participant

    The amount of free/reduced tution is taxable as income

    #1087623

    Lesschumras

    I’m not a tax expert but I was told by an accountant that one of the legal benefits (non taxable pay like health insurance) that a school is allowed to give is tuition (even to a different school) so a teacher can technically get all their kids tuition tax free

    If anyone is an accountant please back me up/ correct me

    #1087624
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    IRC section 117. Qualified Tuition Reduction.

    Lesschumras is incorrect.

    #1087625
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Catch yourself, two points should be added:

    1) In a case where the rebbe could find a different source of income, the reason of schar batalah would not apply, but R’ Moshe still assers because he’s causing bittul Torah.

    2) The concept of eis la’asos could be used under limited circumstances to allow a brief stoppage, if it will result in a long term benefit, meaning it will spur the board to raise the required funds to prevent the rebbeim from leaving altogether. R’ Moshe considers this option to only apply in dire circumstances and with great consideration.

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