can anyone remember which thread spoke about mezuman for women?

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  • #602282

    skiaddict
    Member

    I really need to know about the places in halocho where it says women should do mezuman, and i remember there was a thread where ppl posted the sources, does anyone know which thread? Or can you please repost the source?? Thanx so much!

    #856844

    We pasken that women shouldn’t make a mezumen.

    #856845

    more_2
    Member

    I paskin that all women over the age of three should be included in a mezumin

    #856846

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/what-is-your-most-controversial-opinion

    We pasken that women shouldn’t make a mezumen.

    Source? (Specifically when talking about three or more women eating without any men present.)

    The Wolf

    #856847

    WM: The SA OC 199:6,7 says it is optional and the Mishne Brura ibid., 16 writes “Apparently, the Rabbis did not impose Birchas Hazimun upon women when they eat by themselves because they are generally unfamiliar with the proceedings.”

    Rav Scheinberg said the minhag is that women don’t.

    #856848

    skiaddict
    Member

    Thanx Wolf that was the thread i was looking for, and thanx YD but i rather have the sources that say women should.

    #856849

    ski: Just curious why you don’t want any sources that say they shouldn’t?

    #856850

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    says it is optional

    Which is a far distance from “shouldn’t make a mezuman.”

    Rav Scheinberg said the minhag is that women don’t.

    And I’d be willing to bet dollars to donuts that there are others who pasken that they may.

    The Wolf

    #856851

    skiaddict
    Member

    If i want to do it then obviously i want the sources that say we should.

    #856852

    sushee
    Member

    That’s the wrong way about it. We don’t first decide what we want to do, and then go researching for sources to support what you want to do.

    #856853

    twisted
    Participant

    sk: “because they are generally unfamilliar with the proceedings”

    Mostly everyone is unfamillar with the true concept of zimun as depicted in the gemara and rishonim. The current practice is a relict of the Halacha.

    #856854

    skiaddict
    Member

    sushe i hear you, but then whats the right way to go about it if i want to do mezuman?

    #856855

    Sam2
    Participant

    YD and Sushe: No sources exist saying that they shouldn’t. It’s clear everywhere from the Gemara on down that it’s a R’shus. They can do it if they want. The Rosh (quoted in the Be’ur Halacha) even goes farther to say that they should, but not quite have to. The only reason people Assur it nowadays is because there are many who do it for feminist and non-Halachic reasons, and therefore people want to keep Halacha-keeping women away from that. There is no source, anywhere, with any valid Halachic reason, not to. It’s entirely a thing to keep us away from those trying to change Yiddishkeit. So if a woman does it (And I think they should; why not? It’s a Mitzvah that Pashtus is a Safek Kiyum D’Oraisa.), just don’t make a big deal out of it. If you want to do it then the point isn’t to make waves or say that women are the same as men. If you do it, do it because it’s a Mitzvah and don’t make a huge deal about it in your community.

    #856856

    hershi
    Member

    The right way is to ask your regular Rov, rather than decide beforehand what answer you want, and just accept whatever he tells you.

    #856857

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Here’s a good discussion on the issue (if the mods will allow it through):

    http://www.chaburas.org/zimun3.html

    It brings many opinions, most of which state that woman can make a zimun for themselves. There are even opinions (which we don’t pasken like) that a woman can lead a zimun with men in it (the Ritvah says this).

    It seems the accepted practice is that woman can make a zimun if there are no men there, but they are not obligated to do so. Even if there are 10 women, they don’t say elokeinu in the zimun, as that is a dovor shebikdusha.

    #856858

    musser zoger
    Participant

    That’s the wrong way about it. We don’t first decide what we want to do, and then go researching for sources to support what you want to do.

    Though this is precisely what those who want to get drunk on Purim do.

    #856859

    Ken Zayn
    Member

    Some people include women in their mezuman. Others pay them thru their bank instead.

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