What is your most controversial opinion?

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    I want to hear from all the YWN Coffee Room people, what opinion do you have that you do not feel is “accepted” in the frum/Yeshivish Oilom? Anything goes!


    I would believe that “anything goes” if it were typed in bold and signed by a mod.

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    I think it’s ok to post on YW.


    I have one. (But I’ll be banned from the CR if I voice it!)


    bpt: Does it have to do with nail polish?

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    I have one. (But I’ll be banned from the CR if I voice it!)

    Even worse than the one you’ve already voiced?


    Naturei Karta and all they stand for is surely the most controverial opinion.

    Both the modern & the Yeshivish vehemently loathe what Naturei Karta stands for.


    Bpt, should men say good Shabbos to women they pass on the street in BP? How about at least to other men?

    Think first

    Mine is:

    “Anyone that uses facebook is losing out on life and genuine social interaction”


    I have gotten huge flak for several of my opinions, though I think they are all correct. I think that all music is Assur, that it’s absolutely Assur to dance on Shabbos (voicing that opinion in Meah Sh’arim once got me an extreme verbal berating by a Chossid), and that 3 women who eat together should always make a Mezuman unless they have a very good reason not to. Should I say more?


    That there is absolutely nothing wrong with boys and girls mixing together socially from an early age (under supervision). That many professional shadchanim probably have no business making shidduchim (couples should meet on their own, in college, at Shul, in fun, frum-sponsored events, at the pizza place, etc.)and that NASI is not a well-thought out idea for various reasons. That boys should not take off after marriage to sit and learn all day, but are obligated to devote at least half that day (and preferably more, if more is needed to pay the bills)to earning a parnassah from day one, so that their wives can be free to (gasp!) raise their children as Hashem intended, when they come along. Those boys can do what many men did in my younger years – learn during their breaks, early in the morning before davening, and for a certain amount of time each evening, that does not interfere with their spending time with their wives and children, which is also important for a Jewish home.

    Have I said too much???? Oops! Well you DID ask!


    IMO Christie is correct in bringing Toeva Marriage on the table in NJ. If I lived in a Jewish Monarchy, I would want halacha to be the rule of the land, and if not, I’d want the Government’s definition of morality to err on the side of (serious) civil liberties. Otherwise, my beliefs may be next (Milah, Shechita, etc.). My PERSONAL moral belief is that the act of being Toeva is repugnant, and look forward to the time when we’ll have a Sanhedrin which can enforce dinei nefashos (although then there won’t be anyone to enforce it on…) very soon.

    Avi K

    Do you mean religious or political?

    If it’s religious the I think that the brouhaha on the IDF Chief Rabbinate’s pesak on kol isha is a tempest in a teapot. If it’s political I think that the Likud is the best vehicle in Israel.




    I have gotten huge flak for several of my opinions, though I think they are all correct. I think that all music is Assur, that it’s absolutely Assur to dance on Shabbos (voicing that opinion in Meah Sh’arim once got me an extreme verbal berating by a Chossid), and that 3 women who eat together should always make a Mezuman unless they have a very good reason not to. Should I say more?

    All three are normative Halacha according to most shittos and not controversial.

    I guess mine would be either that parents should pair their children up/let them date at 16 or younger, support them , and make them use BC until they are ready/mature to start a family. Barring that, girls should live their lives not looking/waiting to get married, and if it happens, then great. If not, also great. Both are based off Gemaros in Keddushin.



    1) Boys and girls (not from one family) should be kept apart – as per halachah.

    2) Hilchos bein Adam L’makom are as important as bein Adam L’chaveiro.

    3) Young men learning full time at the say-so from their partners – are indeed upholding the world. Someone to question that is in the category of ????? ??? ???? ??? ????. Schar a partner gets is immeasurable.

    4) Middos tovos are derived from the Torah and based on Chazal, not modern day etiquette and (debased) morals.

    5) A Torah Jew performing mitzvohs to its fullest creates a Kiddush HaShem – that’s how we are “a light to the nations”. No need for any extras. Also no need to worry that doing HaShem’s ratzon will cause a chilul HaShem.

    6) Tznius issues of women should not be taken lightly. If one causes a man to have improper thoughts (or worse), it’s on the woman’s shoulders. Every man, another sin. In Olam HaEmes, there’s a Great Judge, with a great computer… The line “well, they shouldn’t look” does not stand AT ALL.

    7) Our heroes are our Gedolim, not politicians or (so called) Jewish singers.

    .. so far. MORE TO COME

    (you asked for it)


    ZeesKite: How about something controversial? You must have misread the thread title.


    Thinkfirst: That’s controversial?

    Mine is that I think that girls should not be tested on Jewish studies and if they have to be they should be able to choose whether or not it goes on their permanent record. You don’t need tests to absorb the material and in fact many friends of mine have told me that they would appreciate inspirational classes much more if they weren’t stressed out about taking notes and being tested— they could otherwise just let the inspiration come and wash over them and it could stay with them forever, without all the stress from testing.

    Also that (commuter) college is not a bad thing (though this is by no means from personal experience). Boys and girls alike.


    i think rav kook was right about everything


    Zeeskite-I think your opinion should be labeled a normative opinion, certainly not controversial in any way… 🙂 And I totally “second your opinion” 100%.


    Sam2- As you appear to have learned the halachos regarding music in depth, you must also have heard the heter given for listening to music today.

    When i learned the sugya of zimun I arrived at the same conclusion. I tell women all the time that they must answer zimun and have no heter to bench earlier.


    Here goes:

    I think NASI should be disbanded in favor of Gedolim, Gedolim hopefuls and their Rebbetzins, offering five hours a week to meeting older singles and redding them Shidduchim. When a Gadol (sort of like EF Hutton) speaks, people (hopefully) listen. What it takes others weeks of researching/convincing, etc., a Gadol can do in one hour.




    gavra, aimhabonim; thanks.

    It really should be normative, sadly a lot of these points are greatly contested (as evidenced on this thread alone!).


    OK, this is REALLY controversial:

    Someone in the “counselling industry” should not take so much to heart.


    Yungerman: I have heard of many Heterim. None of them satisfy me.

    And it’s a Davar Pashut that women have to answer a Zimun. I hold they really should make their own if no (or 1-2) men are there.

    ED IT OR

    cahane tzedek

    the lobby rebbe lives

    and Britain is the place to live

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    I was under the impression this was not knock down other people thread but a statement of opinion that we ALREADY claimed to be controversial thread. That being the case . . .

    most parents are inept

    many teachers have control issue

    many school administrators will sell a kids soul before losing a gvir

    our community organizations have no business accepting money from/honoring people who they know are inappropriate or unethical


    Most of the shidduch problem comes from the parents, not the people involved. Your average Yeshiva guy views 99% of the girls on the market as “very attractive”, it’s their mothers who demand pictures and say no if she’s not good enough. Your average Bais Yaakov girl will date any guy who knows how to learn, regardless of how many years and what Yeshiva he went to. It’s the mothers who insist on a guy with certain specific criteria.


    It is permissible and probably a positive thing for girls to be learning Gemara (S”A says they receive reward) – as long as they want to do it for lishmah non-feminist reasons, and the time spent learning Gemara is not coming at the expense of the areas of Torah that a woman is chayav in

    Feif Un

    I think the kollel system as it is today is a bad thing.

    I think the way many people look at gedolim today violates Lo yiyeh lecha elohim acheirim.

    I think the idea of Daas Torah as people mean it today is a new thing that is completely wrong.

    I think a husband should be fulfilling what it says in his ketubah and supporting his family.


    i think that teenagers (and perhaps even kids) should be allowed to ask they mechanech a question or two without being labeled “apikores”


    Our schools start teaching Gemara too early without building a strong enough foundation in Tanach, Mishnah, Halachah, and Hashkafah.


    OK, you pushed me. I think (uh oh, thinking again) MO and TTJ are not the same.


    1) What in the world is so bad about learning. Hey that’s what the world was invented for. Ever said Tefillas HaShela? As I wrote before, if partner consents there is no greater cause.

    2) Just in time for our parsha – ??????? ??’ ????? ????. (Dasan & Co. had your views)

    3) Could you care to elaborate what exactly is Da’as Torah.

    4) What is a “ketubah”? Why should a husband fulfill what it says there? Oh! It says about it in talmud? So, let’s learn about it first. Which brings us back to #1. I don’t think its the “supporting” that you’re for, it’s something else you’re against. And writing about it in a “YESHIVA world”.


    Feif Un, I agree with much of what you say. At this years AJOP conference held a few weeks ago, R’ Twersky from Milwaukee (the younger one) spoke to the huge crowd and said how funny it is that guys are embarassed to say theyre working. He repeated what he heard someone tell someone else- “I left Kollel recently, but dont worry, Im not working”. The crowd was rolling.


    i once tried to post my opinion on smoking and smokers. mods didnt let it go through. its very extreme which is unusual for me b/c my views are not extremes on either end. but smoking is a WHOLE different ball game



    How is a Kollel Family with 10 kids marrying off a daughter whose is marrying a Kollel guy (from another Kollel Family with 10 Kids) supposed to support his daughter, Son-in-Law and grandchildren.


    ZK- I agree that ideally every person should be learning. However, it becomes a problem when there are people who don’t learn so seriously who are getting paid to learn. They are taking money from people who expect their money to go towards serious learners, and they are taking money away from people who are serious learners.

    It’s also a problem when children expect parents and in laws to support them in learning, and when parents and in laws feel pressure to support their children in learning. Parents have a right to take their hard earned money and use it for themselves (and maybe even retire early to learn). If a child wants to sit and learn, they should be prepared to live on bread and water, and make sure your wife and kids are okay with that. Every penny given to them is a gift.

    It’s a problem when guys sit and learn for a few years without thinking about a career, and then a few years down the line when they need money, they have no way to earn it.

    It’s a problem when women (even willingly) are “forced” to work full time to support their families when the father is learning, when the real role of the mother is to raise their families. Better to have a full time working father and a full time mother wife or a part time working part time learning father and a part time working part time mother wife, then a full time learning husband and a full time working wife with no mother in the family.


    to yahad:

    I agree, but any question can be asked when asked honestly.

    (ok, you have to find the right person to ask).

    but I am always a little suspicious of someone otd who blames it on not getting an answer. How did they ask? and did they really want an answer. remember the chacham and rasha in hagada seem to be asking the same question


    Sam2- really, women have to make their own mezuman? Could you tell me where thats from, i would love to do it!


    People need to refer to President Obama with more respect as he is our leader, even if we disagree with many of his policies.

    Whether the establishment of Medinas Yisroel violated the 3 Shvuos is irrelevant. We have to have an attitude of hakaras hatov as the Medinah is the shaliach of HKBH which enables there to be more Torah and Jews in Eretz Yisroel since possibly the fall of Beitar.


    Modern orthodoxy continues to blind itself to the obvious failings of their movement, denying even that its founder said that its right to exist depends solely on classic orthodoxy’s inability to thrive in america and the new world, and, having clearly been proven wrong, should be discontinued.


    The United States should really be a day ahead according to the Sugya in Gittin. We should keep Shabbos on Friday.


    Sam2 – +1. Though the music issue and dancing on shabbos issue can be argued(Rema by music,Tosfos by shabbos), I agree with you(surprise!). As a matter of fact I think a koton who is eight or nine should be included in a zimun as per the opinion of most poskim.(Yes, I am aware of a dissenting opinion). Now here’s mine: 1)lubavitch brings something good to yiddishkeit, modern orthodoxy does not. 2)Tallis and Tefillin should be worn by mincha, Tallis by maariv. 3)all boys should wear talleisim and cover their head with it. 4)ben shmone esrei l’chupa. 5)One should not live in eretz yisrael today. 6)the yemenite havara is accurate. 7)it is not necessary mai’ikar hadin to wear a yarmulka. 8)there is no mitzva to do kiruv unless the non-religious person is a child or a tinok shenishba. 9)shaving the beard is in most cases an issur d’oraisa many times over. 10)the kashrus industry is (for the most part) treif. being so involved in gashmius is not kosher(like having 35 flavors of potato chips,45 flavors of ice cream etc.) 11)yeshivos should learn tanach and shma’atsa aliba d’hilchisa. I have other opinions which I’ll save for another time.


    Feif un – YEP.

    Zeeskite, you have lofty and admirable ideas. They just do not work for everyone in this day and age, unfortunately. And Daas Torah does not entitle us to abrogate our responsibility to think for ourselves. hashem gave us bechirah for a reason, and He wants us to make the right choices. To ask Daas Torah on halachic issues is proper and and a chiyuv. But I knwo people who won’t make a single solitary move on their own without asking their Rov what to do. That infantilizes us. JMO.


    I am a regular frum joe who wears a black hat on Shabbos and davens in a small yeshivish minyan.

    1. Three woman should ALWAYS do a mezuman. My Rav (father of six daughters) held this way and he would excuse himself when they did it. If women have a chiyuv to bentsch then why not to make a mezuman?

    2. Orthodox Shuls should be more hospitable to woman. It’s one thing to separate, it’s another to confine woman behind a thick sheet so that they can’t see anything. When I duchan, I always make sure to tilt my body toward the woman’s section (if it’s to the side) so that they are included in the bracha. Many Cohanim don’t do this.

    3. Woman learning. Many girls and women I know don’t daven what they should, don’t learn what they should and chalk it up to everything being “for the men.” I feel that we are neglecting 50% of our people when it comes to Jewish education and tefillah.

    No, I am not a feminist. I am not pro; “Women of the Wall” (because of their incitement agenda. I just want to be fair to ALL Jews.

    Lastly, I despise some of the racism and ethnocentrism in the Yesivish world. We had an Asian convert over for Shabbos once and another guest asked her: (shouting, as if she was deaf) “How long have you been in our country.” The woman replied: (loudly) “Three generations! You?”

    Not all Frum Jews are pasty white. We should embrace all colors and ethnicities who are either born Jewish or converted and be a Kiddush Hashem to those who are not Jewish.

    End rant.


    1) Beer doesn’t really make a cholent taste better

    2) Hard cider tastes better than beer

    3) The Office isn’t funny


    Haleivi: please explain why we should keep shabbos on friday. thanks.


    Skiadict: see mishna brurah and biur halacha http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&st=&pgnum=189&hilite=

    in addition: Aruch Hashulchan said it was not done http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=7705&st=&pgnum=365&hilite=

    Rav Tuv

    Yehuda Tzvi- If women have a chiyuv to bentsch then why not to make a mezuman?

    With that logic if women have a chiyuv to daven then why not make a minyan?

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