Cousins Marrying

Home Forums Shidduchim Cousins Marrying

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 77 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #605002

    i said so
    Member

    i have a neighbor that just got engaged to her cousin, how accepted is it in the general population?!

    #930374

    yaff80
    Participant

    The ??? ?????? of Gateshead ????? married his first cousin.

    The story goes that they werent sure whether to do it or not, so he did a ??? ???? which came out by the ???? that ????? married ???. He is called ????? and yes you guessed it – his wife is called ???! B”h he is married numerous years with healthy children, grandchildren and even a few great grandchildren ??”?.

    It cant be that bad!

    #930375

    Chortkov
    Participant

    By Chassidishe Rebbes it is extremely common — but even in the Litvishe circles – R’ Avrohom Gurvitz Shlit”a, Rosh Yeshiva in Gateshead, married his first cousin. (R’ Leib Lopian and R’ Leib Gurvitz were brothers in law)

    #930376

    on the ball
    Participant

    According to geneticists it increases the chances of a defective embryo by 4 times Rachmana Litzlan.

    Mazel Tov for your neighbour and may Hashem give them only healthy offspring.

    #930377

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Its not, In fact its illegal in 38 states. 1st cousins can only marry in 12 states (NY is one of them)

    #930378

    MorahRach
    Member

    NOT very. It’s so dangerous I can’t even explain it to you. My family used to be friends with a family, the parents are married first cousins. 4 out of 8 of their children were born with a genetic disease, and 3 of those 4 have passed away. The 4th is sick but bH doing pretty well. The gene pool is just to familiar and small with cousins marrying, it is not healthy.

    #930379

    Maeby theyre not actually cousins. did u see the pictures?

    #930380

    walton157
    Member

    @ i said so: Are these cousins by blood or marriage. Are they Safardic/Ashkenaz/Jewish?

    Forget the general population. If they are first cousins by blood-there is a chance that their offspring having physical and psychological problems.

    #930381

    akuperma
    Participant

    1. If you are an Ashkenazi and are marrying an Ashkenazi, you are marrying a cousin. If you go back a mere 50 generations, we are all cousins, probably many times over. Most of us have a common ancestor going back a few centuries at most.

    2. Halacha always allowed marriage of even first cousins (both cousins have a common grandparents). Canon law, which combined Jewish law and Roman law, was more restrictive since they took some Roman rules on counting relationships, added it to some Jewish law rules, and came up with a partial ban on marriage between first and second cousins (far more restrictive than either Jewish or Roman law), some of which made it into Anglo-American law though this has largely vanished. That’s where “degrees” and “once removed” comes from.

    3. Marriages of even first cousins are hardly unknown in frum communities.

    4. Some people have suggested that marriage between cousins raises the liklihood of birth defects since they are likely to share negative recessive traits (which only are displayed if two people marry with the same recessive traits).

    #930382

    besalel
    Participant

    on a completely unrelated tangent, i would like to point out that while i very often disagree with the opinions espoused in this forum by akuperma, the posts are among the most intelligent, well-reasoned and articulate posts i read on talkbacks anywhere. take a look at the remark here about first cousins; short yet comprehensive, accurate and to the point.

    even though i think akuperma’s stance on Zionism, for example, is anti-Torah and dangerous for world jewry, akuperma makes the best arguments for any position. if there was a poster of the year vote, my vote would definitely be for akuperma. a good read every time.

    #930383

    interjection
    Participant

    It’s illegal in some states.

    #930384

    shmoel
    Member

    Anyone from a State that doesn’t perform marriages between first cousins, can simply visit another State that does allow it (i.e. New York State), get a marriage license from that State, and return home that same evening.

    All 50 States will 100% absolutely recognize the marriage, including their home state.

    #930385

    But required in others, hic

    #930387

    menucha12
    Member

    that kinda just grosses me out…

    #930388

    shmoel
    Member

    Menucha: Other people are grossed out by interracial marriages.

    #930389

    i said so
    Member

    whts the reason so many states made it illegal?

    does it mke a diff if they r related through fathers or mothers?

    #930390

    akuperma
    Participant

    “i said so” – the reason many states (and many Christian countries) restrict marriage between cousins has to do with the way in which canon law (the law of the Roman Catholic Church) was assimilated into the local legal system. Canon law restricts marriage of cousins, which is why many states/countries do. It has nothing to do with genetics (there are situtations where cousins are at a high risk for genetic disorders if they marry, but the law on the books dates to well before genetics were discovered).

    #930391

    147
    Participant

    Akuperma:- Everone in this world is within a 300th cousin, and probably closer than that.

    But for your information, right after the Chag, I am marrying my niece. Even a closer relative than my cousin. Everyone is so excited about our forthcoming Chassunoh.

    #930392

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    the reason many states (and many Christian countries) restrict marriage between cousins has to do with the way in which canon law (the law of the Roman Catholic Church) was assimilated into the local legal system

    Can you provide some support for that statement, at least as it applies to the states in the US? The reason I ask is because the early Christian influences in the US were largely Protestant and not Catholic. In fact, I can’t see any of the authorities in Colonial America being all that concerned with Roman Catholic canon law.

    The Wolf

    #930393

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    One of the reasons Tay Sachs is a problem for jews is Cousins Marrying

    #930394

    i said so
    Member

    147- mazel tov!

    did u guys do any genetic testing?

    #930395

    im surprised no one has mentioned yet that rav nosson tzvi finkel zatzal was married to a cousin (i could be wrong, but i think it was a first cousin)

    #930396

    shmoel
    Member

    Many great rabbonim married their cousin.

    #930397

    akuperma
    Participant

    WolfishMusings: The law the was received by the United States was the law of the Church of England, which was derived from the Canon Law as it existed at the time it split off (as the Catholics claim, the English officially maintain they are actually good catholics but the pope is a bit confused about his role). Therefore American marriage law is derived from pre-16th century canon law, received via the Anglicans (who made very few changes that affected marriage and divorce – Henry’s infamous divorce was an exception by all standards – America didn’t allow divorce except by act of the legislature until the mid-19th century).

    #930398

    shmoel
    Member

    akuperma: Why didn’t America allow divorce until the mid-19th century? Anglician law allowed divorce already from Henry’s times.

    #930399

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Anglician law allowed divorce already from Henry’s times.

    Not necessarily. Consider Edward VIII’s abdication crisis.

    In any event, Henry VIII’s marriages to Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves were officially annulled. He did not obtain a divorce for either marriage.

    The Wolf

    #930400

    shmoel
    Member

    Wolf: Thank you.

    Why couldn’t Henry obtain an annulment from Rome, considering canon law provides for annulment?

    #930401

    shmoel
    Member

    Btw, Edward could legally marry a divorcee under Anglician law, but he was forced to abdicate because it was considered unbecoming for a King to marry a divorcee. Not that it was illegal.

    So I’m still unsure how you are demonstrating that Anglician law didn’t allow for divorce until much after Henry’s times.

    #930402

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    henry VIII was not an anglican , He was a Catholic. He only became an Anglican when the pope didnt allow him to divorce. He COULD have legally divorced Catherine, but he needed a dispensation from the pope, but Catherine was the daughter of the King and Queen of Spain and they were threatening the pope who then denied henry VIII of a dispensation for divorce.

    #930403

    shmoel
    Member

    Henry created the Anglician religion by breaking off the English branch of the Catholic Church and starting his own religion so he could do what he wanted.

    #930405

    midwesterner
    Participant

    R’ Nosson Tzvi’s grandfather (R’ Avrohom Shmuel Finkel) and his wife’s grandfather (R’ Leizer Yudel Finkel) were brothers, sons of the Alter of Slabodka. He was therefore a second cousin to his wife.

    #930406

    WIY
    Member

    The Bnos Tzlafchad married their first cousins. Im not sure what I am proving but this is a fact.

    #930407

    gotbeer
    Member

    The Bnos Tzlafchad married their first cousins. Im not sure what I am proving but this is a fact.

    WIY- I believe it was their uncles(Father’s Brothers).

    #930408

    I am really impressed with all your guys kowledge of history.

    By us it was once noigea’ah so we went to ask a Rav and he told us,

    a) only to do it if the siblings and spouses – potential mehcutanim – are not strong characters, as there is often a certain amount of disagreement with mechutanim, and if they are siblings it can really get out of ahnd.

    b) to take care of allblood work and financial discussions before the couple meet.

    c) he told us that if it looks good, it is really worht doing, because you already know all the chesroinois, and you are much better off than with someone that you do no know.

    #930409

    Ðash®
    Participant

    Henry created the Anglician religion by breaking off the English branch of the Catholic Church and starting his own religion so he could do what he wanted.

    What Henry VIII did was temporarily grant papal authority to the Archbishop of Canterbury. It was Elizibeth I who left Catholocism.

    #930410

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I wouldn’t, but I understand why people would. I have only male cousins in my age range, several of which are in marriageable range. I would probably be interested if they weren’t my cousins. I’d be scared of certain family quirks, which are normal in us as individuals, being intensified in our kids.

    #930411

    147
    Participant

    Rav Shmuel Auerbach {Rav Shlomo Zalman’s son} recently got engaged to his niece in-law; i.e. His late wife & her late husband were blood uncle & niece.

    Mind you, I would consider their 17 year age gap more disturbing than their being related.

    #930412

    mrs. Katz
    Member

    Mind you, I would consider their 17 year age gap more disturbing than their being related.

    Posted 1 day ago

    I would not advise to be disturbed by an odom godoil. Koirach was also “disturbed” and it didn’t take him too far.

    #930413

    147, are you sure that you do not mean R’ azriel Auerbach? It would make more sense

    BTW, see the end of parshas behaloischa what happened to tzippoira when she expressed her opinions about a godol’s “marriage” – and she was a sister, and on a much higher madreigoh.

    #930414

    goldersgreener
    Participant

    147, are you sure? R’ shmuel has been an almn for close to twenty years loi aleinu, and i don’t think he wanted to remarry.

    MODS, i don’t think you should havepublished a comment like 147’s.

    #930415

    147
    Participant

    Thank you ybrooklynteacher for your correction. As for you goldersgreener, I respect your opinion on this forum, and likewise you respect my opinion on this forum.

    May these 2 Auerebach Brothers be blessed with many healthy & content years.

    I was Zoche to meet their late Father ZT’L on numerous occasions.

    #930416

    Geordie613
    Participant

    It is HaRav Ezriel Auerbach who just got engaged. He was married to HaRav Elyashiv’s daughter. His Kalla is from the Elyashiv family, not sure who it is exactly.

    #930417

    147, i do not think 17 years make that much difference when you are 82 years old.

    BTW, the wife of R’ tuvia weiss is also twenty years younger than him, as is the almana of the last vizhnitzer rebbe, as is the wife of r’ dovid solovaitchik.

    #930418

    goldersgreener
    Participant

    147, i respect your opinion very much, and i more than understand that you confused two brothers, i was however surprised that the mods published an “engagement announcement” without first checking the details, especially when the “chosson” in question is an odom godoil, – and especially seeing that he is not even on the market!!!

    #930419

    Yeshiva world news ????? ????? ????

    ?”? ???? ???”?

    ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???????, ????? ????? ?’ ????? ?????? ????”?, ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???????, ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???????????,

    ??’ ???? ???? ??????.

    ????? ????? ????? ????? ???????,

    ?????? “?????? ???” ?

    #930420

    147, if you know the family, perhaps you know how to ask him mechila?

    #930421

    mrs. Katz
    Member

    In terms of cousins marrying, what do you guys say to the following.

    The oldest daughter of the tchernobler rebbe of benei berak, r’ nochum twersky, is married to his younger brother – i.e. her uncle. His second daughter is married to his nephew, i.e. her first cousin. These two sisters were then meshadech!!!! The chosson and kallah were first cousins, as were three of the parents!!!

    The daughter of the imrei chayim of vitznitz, brocho z”l, was married to R’ moishe ernster. Their son, r’ mendel, married a daughter of the yeshuois moishe – his first cousin, while his son married a daughter of r’ yisroel – the present vizhnitzer rebbe. R’ yisroel was also meshadech with another bil, and a uncle!!!

    #930422

    goldersgreener
    Participant

    BTW, 147, a massiva massiva mazel tov on your recent wedding, may you see much yiddishe nachas, gezunteheit, and i ask you mechila if i upset you.

    #930423

    regarding the story with r’ avraham gurvitz they asked reb elya what to do and he said it was okay but no one in the family should do it again

    #930425

    Supposedly the steipler was opposed to cousins marrying.

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 77 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.