prune juice?!? :o\
I said plum juice! P-L-UMMM, Plum. (fermented) PLUM jucie
who hid my coffee cup...
YWN Coffee Room » Inspiration / Mussar
Frum Girls Dancing on the Dance Dance Revolution at Arcades
(275 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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22oldgold: maybe that's true for most, but i don't think it's everyone. technically if i liked ddr this thread might have changed what i do, since i never thought of this whole idea before, but i think it's true now that i hear it. could be there are some others like me who just don't realize.
Posted 4 years ago # -
-Charlie BrownBut actually I think mayan is serious that taking pictures will scare these girls away from these machines. I think it will scare them away from yidishkeit instead.
I totally agree with this. Bullying is NOT the way to go.
~a~
Posted 4 years ago # -
The requirements to give Tochachah are:
1) You have to first assess that there is at least a reasonable possibility of the person listening to you. (Sometimes there are Halachic ways of assessing this.)
2) You have to give the Tochachah in a non-aggressive manner, and never in front of people.
3)You have to make the person understand that the only reason you are giving him the Tochachah is because you care about him, and it is for his good, so that he can get Olam Habah.
It also says in Sefer HaChinuch perek 239 that you should give someone tochacha privately and in a nice way; but if they don't listen to you, then you should embarrass them in public so that they will do teshuvah.
So, if I am reading Mayan_Dvash correctly, he is suggesting exactly this. That a woman should give those girls tochacha, and if they stubbornly persist in continuing their public breach of tznius -- that she follow the halachas in tochacha (as outlined above in the Sefer HaChinuch Perek 239) and publicly embarrass her.
Remember, tochacha is halachicly required to be given; and remember a breach of tznius is not only an aveira by the person committing it, but she is causing untold numbers of other bystanders to sin by even having unwittingly seen her breach of tznius.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I agree with feivel dancing on these macines is assur. And mosh i'm happy you have such a fine sister because personally i think ice-skating for a girl if men could watch is also assur. Someone mentioned "why shouldn't girls have fun too?" I have a different question: how come ladies are permitted to look at men and not vice versa? the answer has something to do with torah! now figure it out!
Posted 4 years ago # -
Plum! Prune!
It's all the same
What's the difference between one vegetable and another?
Posted 4 years ago # -
99, i hope you weren't the guy squeak was suggesting i hire as a tutor...
Posted 4 years ago # -
rosh, yeah - i gotta say she really is. (don't EVER let her hear me saying that!)
and by the way all of you: i shouldn't be the one saying this because it's not my place, but how tznius do you think it is for a guy to go over to a girl and give her tochacha?? uh - isn't half the problem the fact that he's watching? (again, i'm surprised i'm the one saying this, but no one else did...)
Posted 4 years ago # -
I believe the suggestion made by a few posters was that a woman give the tochacha.
Posted 4 years ago # -
oh even better. go over to her friend and tell HER to tell the girl... got it.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Remember, tochacha is halachicly required to be given; and remember a breach of tznius is not only an aveira by the person committing it, but she is causing untold numbers of other bystanders to sin by even having unwittingly seen her breach of tznius.
Joseph, while this is true, shouldnt men be avoiding places that have DDR? After all, non Jewish women could be dancing on it and cause men to sin also. So if a man was avoiding places of possible pritzut (and an arcade with dancing machines qualifies!) then they are doing something wrong themselves.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Plum juice??? Anyone ever tried Pumpkin Juice?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Joseph got it in the last paragraph:
and remember a breach of tznius is not only an aveira by the person committing it, but she is causing untold numbers of other bystanders to sin
Dear Mods, can I get an increase on my humor/satire limit?
Posted 4 years ago # -
MOsh I think a little of your sister rubbed off on you(the way you're concerned with tznius)
Posted 4 years ago # -
Joseph, while this is true, shouldnt men be avoiding places that have DDR? After all, non Jewish women could be dancing on it and cause men to sin also. So if a man was avoiding places of possible pritzut (and an arcade with dancing machines qualifies!) then they are doing something wrong themselves
WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!! It's time MEN took responsibility for their problems with the yetzer hara, instead of always attributing it to a breach on the parts of the girls. That said, the girls should probably avoid these places because of the other males who may see them, even if frum guys are not there.
Posted 4 years ago # -
While we're on the subject of really exciting sports, what do you think of girls bowling in public or even on a date?
I have no problem with bowling, as long as you arent bowling in an improper way. There are ways to bowl without causing any issues. I used to watched the PBA tournaments and pro-bowlers do not bend over that much.
Posted 4 years ago # -
"WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!! It's time MEN took responsibility for their problems with the yetzer hara, instead of always attributing it to a breach on the parts of the girls."
its not a war
men need to guard their eyes
and women need to guard their tzniusPosted 4 years ago # -
Thanks feivel. Thats the first time I heard that from a male figure. Unless you're a woman in diguise.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Well said, Feivel
And each need to take care of their own responsibilities. So when a woman makes a suggestion to increase tzniut, female listeners can say, "Thank you for the suggestion, I hadn't thought of that before." Or, "I think my Rav says otherwise, I'll look into it."
Posted 4 years ago # -
its not a war
men need to guard their eyes
and women need to guard their tzniusFeivel, have you been on this website long? LOL. It seems that every conversation is men jumping in to say "women have breeched tzniut!" But they don't seem to think about (or at least don't verbalize) that they shouldnt have done that in the first place. Some people mentioned that it wouldnt be right to go up to the women, but no one mentioned leaving or not being there! But I do agree with your statement.
sjs, like I said, great point, but you gotta be kidding about the PBA tournaments...
Ames, are you talking about them not bending that much, or watching the tournament? LOL. I'm going by memory, so it could be they bent more than I remember. But it was their foot that usually did significant bending!
Posted 4 years ago # -
reivimzehlazeh
Member
I got it- did you?charlie brown
Member
no I don't get it - my head is spinning. Pass the bourbon, will ya? ;)YW Moderator-99
Moderator
Charlie, we only serve coffee in here.Am I missing something here, or is areivim = mod99? I never chas vesholom asked a mod for bourbon, I asked areivim for it. And plain simple members who are not mods are not subject to the handbook because we've never seen it! We're only subject to the rules that were posted by the esteemed editor in a thread that's highlighted on top of the main CR page (btw, congrats on the 2 month anniversary of those rules) and nowhere does it state therein that members may only serve each other coffee or prune juice!
:o\ plum juice. it's plum juice! P-L-UMMM, Plum. Plum. Plum. (fermented) PLUM juice
Posted 4 years ago # -
yeah, yeah, prune juice, plum juice - I'm with 99 on that. plums, prunes, grapefruits - all the same to me.
Now can a non-mod PLEASE get me some bourbon?
Posted 4 years ago # -
rosh, who says i'm concerned? to be honest, you wish i care. but i'm not stupid and i went to yeshiva and my sister comes up with these new things every other day. as much as i might brush them off as stupid, i do hear where she's coming from (sometimes...) but don't tell her that!
kapusta, she is ;) you couldn't find two more opposite members in my family.
Posted 4 years ago # -
charlie, i would but i'm underage so i can't let you know that i have access to liquor around here... ;)
by the way, how did you last through pesach without any? or were you still shikkur from the sedarim that you don't remember?
Posted 4 years ago # -
feivel- as usual, excellent post!
SJS- this is an unending argument of which came first, the chicken or the egg?
The girls shouldn't be doing non-tznius things and the men shouldn't have been looking to begin with. Well here's some news- the girls are making it harder for the men to guard their eyes by doing/wearing provocative things!Basically, everyone needs to do their part and stop pushing the responsibility and blame on to the other gender.
In addition- I nominate both feivel's & Rosh Yeshiva's posts as Posts of the Year
Posted 4 years ago # -
areivimzehlazeh
unending argument of which came first, the chicken or the egg?
no argument about the chicken and the egg. go read Bereishes specifically day 5 of creation. the fowl were created with the ability to have offspring.
Posted 4 years ago # -
"the girls are making it harder for the men to guard their eyes by doing/wearing provocative things!"
If the men werent in places they should be in the first place, this would be a moot point.
"Basically, everyone needs to do their part and stop pushing the responsibility and blame on to the other gender."
I completely agree with this though. As I agreed with Feivel as well.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Basically, everyone needs to do their part and stop pushing the responsibility and blame on to the other gender.
100% keeeeerect!!!!
Posted 4 years ago # -
oomis, did they change the spelling since you were a kid?
Posted 4 years ago # -
so what you're saying SJS is that any place where there is something remotely fun to do- frum men should not walk in there! Even a married man with his family! All these places should have a sign "this is an all frum girls facility"...
In addition, all streets, even in an all frum area, must be deserted by any frum male which does not wish to lay his eyes upon anything pretzusdig. After all, men should not have been there to begin with if there is something inappropriate in that place.
It is not for the women to judge if the men belong in a place or not. They have a responsibility to be tzniusdig wherever they are. Women need to do their part & men need to do theirs.
You say you agree with feivel's post, but your arguments say otherwise.
(I know I come across very strong- try not to take it personally.)Posted 4 years ago # -
areivimzehlazeh:
She was talking about the Goyim on the machine, even if the frum girls avoid it.
You wouldn't walk into a club, a mixed swimming pool, or a water park, would you? Even if there are no frum women there?
Why should this be any different? There are women dancing! You (as a male) can't go there!
Of course, if the area was rented out to frum people, then there may be something to talk about.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Areivim, GAW summed up my point nicely. Basically, if there is pritzut there (or the possibility of), men should NOT go there, no matter who is causing the pritzut.
Posted 4 years ago # -
GAW: Nonjewish women walk around in pants or miniskirts outside. You can still walk outside.
Posted 4 years ago # -
aussie, you know what his answer is going to be - why are you asking? ;)
Posted 4 years ago # -
Please, I hope you guys are joking. Men have no choice about walking around outside but there are other places for entertainment other than arcades.
Posted 4 years ago # -
oomis, did they change the spelling since you were a kid?
wut spelyng?
Posted 4 years ago # -
charlie brown: here buddy, i found you a great bottle!
Posted 4 years ago # -
99, now that you're around again I can bug you some more for my prize (this goes back to Chanuka). Heh heh heh heh heh. OK, now you can go back into hiding again.
Posted 4 years ago # -
ommis: this speleeng.
moish: Not sure.
joyous: Nope. not joking. Name me another place of entertainment that doesnt include girls walking around in pants or short sleeve shorts.
Posted 4 years ago # -
aussie, he's gonna say what they all say. should i act it out?
"When a yid walks in the street he need to be careful about his shmiras einayim. The easiest way is to take off your glasses. If you boruch hashem are unfortunate enough to have 20/20 vision you should walk with your head down.
Don't worry about bumping into trees or streetlamps - if you are doing the ratzon of hashem you have special shmira and chances are you won't get a concussion. (Just by the way, if you happen to notice something big and tall that's not moving and has no pulse, odds are, it's a tree - not a woman.)
If you chas vesholom have to look up - like to check if the light is red (that's if and only IF you're hard of hearing and can't tell if there are cars zooming by without actually looking) be sure to make it a quick peek.
If a bochur is in a situation where the yetzer hora is following him around town and he looks up and notices something that's not tznius, he is not chayav unless he looks back a second time. so the first time we blame on the satan - the second time you look you are over on not having shmiras einayim."
Posted 4 years ago # -
Nope. not joking. Name me another place of entertainment that doesnt include girls walking around in pants or short sleeve shorts.
Unfortunately, everywhere you go there are women dressed improperly. But, to go somewhere that has activities that enhance the pritzut (such as a place where women will be dancing) is WRONG. Can a frum guy go clubbing even if he doesnt dance? After all, provocative women are everywhere...(insert sarcasm here in case you missed it)
Posted 4 years ago # -
no no no no no! i'm rebelling now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i usually shut my mouth when a post doesn't make it but that one as a good one!
come on, mod!
Posted 4 years ago # -
cool thank! ;)
Posted 4 years ago # -
now don't anyone tell me that rebelling doesn't work!
ok, i'm KIDDING!
Posted 4 years ago # -
:)
Posted 4 years ago # -
moish: i loved that post! ''post of the day''!
Posted 4 years ago #
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