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1. Shticky Guy
   THE SHTICKIEST POSTER IN THE ©®

   " There were also problems with ultra-
   orthodox Jews, who tend to consider
   dogs unclean animals. One religious
   woman went into spasms of horror
   when Finn trotted past her as I walked
   him on the lead. His less-than-helpful
   contribution was to try to lick her leg."

   What is it with frum Jews and most animals, especially dogs. Why do so many mainly girls and women completely freak out even when a cute small animal gets within a half mile distance?

   They are friendly! Pat or stroke it! It is a creature of hash-m. It is here for a purpose and it sings shira every day to hash-m. They respect us... no dog barked when we came out of Egypt. Yes they are considered non clean animals, but the panic they cause in frum neighbourhoods is rediculous!

   I once said every family should be forced to own a dog. That would get everyone used to them. But many rabbonim hold a frum person should not own a dog.

   What is it with Jews and dogs?

   Posted 10 months ago #

2. takahmamash
   Member

   We own a dog, and most kids and adults relax around her once she sniffs them and tries to get them to pet her. Then again, not every dog should be pet or stroked, and I would never pet a dog without asking permission first.

   I don't want to get off-topic here, but why are you writing Hashem as hash-m? You skip a letter for no reason, but you don't capitalize the "H"? Odd.

   Posted 10 months ago #

3. MorahRach
   Member

   yes! this is awesome.i have 2 dogs! maybe that is a lo but i have always had dog, never less than too. They show unconditional love, they need us to care for them, they are great with kids, great for protection,great company. My friends growing up loved my dogs, yet after seminary i would say the vast majority could not go into my parents home unless the dogs were locked up. What is the deal?

   Posted 10 months ago #

4. AinOhdMilvado
   Member

   On a lighter note, there's an old joke about Yankel who totally abandoned Yiddishkeit. He moved to a completely goyish neighborhood, had only goyish friends, had no connections to Judaism at all.
   After living like that for many, many years, one day at a nearby mall Yankel (now known as Jack) bumps into his old friend Moshe from the old neighborhood.
   Moshe is shocked by his friend's life style.
   "You mean to tell me you have nothing Jewish left in your life at all?!?" asks Moshe.
   "To be totally honest" replies Yankel, "There are only two things left to my Jewish identity that I can't seem to shake off".
   "Nu?" asks Moshe.
   Yankel responds "Well, truth be told, I still love kneidlach, and... I'm still afraid of dogs!"

   Posted 10 months ago #

5. WolfishMusings
   The Wolf

   I grew up with two dogs (including one that was in the house from before I was born) so I never had the opportunity to become afraid of dogs.

   We would have at least one dog in the house were it not for the fact that my sister and members of her family are highly allergic to them. We value their company, so we don't have dogs. We do, however, keep hamsters as pets.

   The Wolf (who does NOT view the hamsters as snacks).

   Posted 10 months ago #

6. The Chassidishe Gatesheader
   Member

   I have 3 cats, adopted straight from the streets of Yerushalayim where we found them as sick small cats (one of them was almost dead). I have heard and witnessed examples of cruelty against animals one does not want to imagine.

   One of our cats, for example, was caught by kids from a local yeshiva who put him in an oven and were just turning it on when an adult spotted it and freed the cat. That was a week before we took him into our house. These were very 'neat' 14/15-year old yeshiva bochurim from a very mainstream respected Ashkenazi yeshiva. They were having a lot of fun about it when they were caught.

   And yes it is indeed quite funny - some of the older daughters of our neighbors would be completely terrified on seeing a friendly small smiling cat.

   When we left E"Y we took the cats with us, obviously. Here in Gateshead there are more frum people who have pets (some cats, even dogs and also a snake somewhere).

   Posted 10 months ago #

7. Toi
   beware the cleats

   cats in eretz yisrael are like ants or fleas to the rest of the world. israeli kids view cats the way a kid in lakewood views a fly. its not a big deal, though im not saying its right. i would never let anyone in my family touch a cat here, and ive had to kick them a couple of times, when cats come straight out of sewage and try to rub up against you.

   Posted 10 months ago #

8. Health
   Member

   TCG -"was caught by kids from a local yeshiva who put him in an oven and were just turning it on when an adult spotted it and freed the cat."

   Ober, they will make the oven Traif. So it can't be true -your Meissa. (;0

   Posted 10 months ago #

9. BaalHabooze
   On the rocks

   Growing up with almost every neighbor owning a pet, I never had a problem with cats or dogs. I was therefore horrified to learn of my kids' reaction when we passed by a dog on the street about a year ago.
   Many monthes and many dog visits later i honestly can see a huge improvement in my kids' behavior and attitude. No more shreiks, raised hair in fright, or puddles between their feet. They have all adapted beautifully and even enjoy getting dog licks.
   Now, as for my wife....

   Posted 10 months ago #

10. Shopping613
    Pretty please with a cherry on top!

    As me being a girl/woman I can actually attempt to explain to men why women have such strange reactions to dogs and what exactly goes on in a mind of a woman/girl when she Chas vashalom sees a dog. It goes something like this:

    "AHHHHHHH! A DOG"
    'Oh no another dog, I forgot the posuk again....oh hashem please don't let it jump on me in my shabbos clothes, I just got them this week'
    'Oh no here he comes'
    (Girl runs as fast as she can)
    (In case you men didn't know, there is a posuk to say when a girl Chas vasholom sees a dog)

    Posted 10 months ago #

11. ItcheSrulik
    Formerly college sheigetz. Now ger.

    I've noticed sefardim and even ashkenazi baalei teshuva are usually less afraid of dogs than ashkenazim. I think it's a cultural thing because of the the way Jews were hunted with dogs in Europe which those ashkenazi Jews who kept European Jewish culture passed on to their kids.

    Posted 10 months ago #

12. yummy cupcake
    with sprinkles on top

    funny- in sem (we were a small sem) we were in a villa for the year. the ppl who owned the sem had a dog, and there was a dog that lived down the block and it would ALWAYS come play with "our" dog. in the beginning of the yr only a couple of girls were ok with the dogs. the rest of us went crazy! and even the teachers, if the dog(s) were waiting by the gate of the villa, they would not come in till the dogs left on their own (or if we noticed a teacher was late, we'd check to see if she/he had been down the block waiting for the dog to move away from the gate, then one girl would have to go up and bring the dog elsewhere) :D was quite the funny situation!

    Posted 10 months ago #

13. SayIDidIt™
    Member

    Shopping613
    (Girl runs as fast as she can)

    There was a story a number of years ago about a little girl who saw a dog coming down the block and ran across the street. Unfortunately, there was a car coming down the block and the girl never made it to the other side.

    The dog is not as dangerous as the car. Be careful.

    Posted 10 months ago #

14. Shticky Guy
    THE SHTICKIEST POSTER IN THE ©®

    In case you men didn't know,
    there is a posuk to say when a girl
    Chas vasholom sees a dog)

    In case you women didn't know,
    there is a bracha that men say when they see a girl shrieking in terror because she Chas v'shalom lo aleinu accidentally came within tchum shabbos of a dog. The bracha is shelo asani isha)

    Posted 10 months ago #

15. SayIDidIt™
    Member

    And that beside "Dogs love chasing"

    Posted 10 months ago #

16. BaalHabooze
    On the rocks

    Shopping613- LOL!!!!!!!!

    (my wife approves of your explanation. +1)

    Posted 10 months ago #

17. SaysMe
    O pen, says me

    Shticky Guy- haha!! :)

    Posted 10 months ago #

18. Shopping613
    Pretty please with a cherry on top!

    Shticky guy lol women and dogs just don't mix, its like purple and orange! (If you're a girl you'll understand if you're a man that's a little harder to explain)

    Posted 10 months ago #

19. Syag Lchochma
    Tell it to me, and I will tell you if it's Loshon Hara :)

    Frum Jews and animals: why can't they get along together?

    I dunno, in my house they get along so well I sometimes have trouble telling which is which.

    Posted 10 months ago #

20. Shticky Guy
    THE SHTICKIEST POSTER IN THE ©®

    Frum Jews and animals: why can't they get along together?

    I dunno, in my house they get along so well I sometimes have trouble telling which is which.

    LOL! Syag, I know exactly what you mean! My kids behave like that sometimes too! ☺

    Regarding my earlier posts, there must be a reason why a dog is called MAN'S best friend and not woman's...

    Posted 10 months ago #

21. Avi K
    Member

    Toi, cats generally flee when a person even looks at them, hence the expression "fraidy cat". If a stray cat tries to rub up against you it is obviously a gilgul seeking its tikun.

    Posted 10 months ago #

22. mommamia22
    Member

    Toi
    Kicking a cat?
    How about stomping your feet (yelling "scat") or jumping hard in front of them.

    We only have a pet fish, but we love animals and our kids have learned the same.
    They ask to pet neighborhood dogs. They play with our neighbors cats.
    We once found an ailing baby bird (fell out of it's nest). We brought it home and cared for it until we were able to bring it to an animal medical center.

    Kids learn what we model. We don't have a dog, but our kids love dogs because that's what we model.
    I grew up with cats, birds, and fish.

    One thing I've noticed is that modern families will typically embrace getting a pet much more quickly than a yeshivish family will (and, so, their comfort levels will reflect that familiarity).

    Is there a Halacha about having a pet (ie: on Shabbos, etc)?

    Posted 10 months ago #

23. MorahRach
    Member

    Well I am a girl and I love animals. Cats I can take or leave but I have a soft spot for dogs.

    Posted 10 months ago #

24. PBT
    Member

    We have two cats, brothers from the same litter. They are sweet, cute, and lend a lot of humor when they do some unusual antic. And we're black-hat, Charedi, "Ultra-Orthodox" and makpid on the mitzvos and Torah learning. That includes being makpid in appreciating the other creatures that Hashem created for our enjoyment.

    Posted 10 months ago #

25. 2scents
    Mint and Raspberry

    We always got along with our goldfish.

    Posted 10 months ago #

26. Stamford Hilly Billy
    Member

    The problem seems fairly clear to me, no dogs = no comptetion as to who is having the leftover chulent for supper.

    Posted 10 months ago #

27. TheMusicMan
    Epigraph: Director of the Redundancy Department of Redundancy

    I don't know. I haven't met anyone who opposed my pet rock...

    Posted 10 months ago #

28. Shopping613
    Pretty please with a cherry on top!

    My friend found 6 kittens a few weeks ago and now they are all like house cats! Personally I love dogs, just not in my shabbos clothes :)

    Posted 10 months ago #

29. Shticky Guy
    THE SHTICKIEST POSTER IN THE ©®

    The problem seems fairly clear to me, no dogs = no comptetion as to who is having the leftover chulent for supper.

    Give your left over cholent to your pirhanas! But be careful! Our doberman (now that's a jewish name if there ever was one) once jumped into the tank after the cholent. It was really sad burying his teeth :-(

    Posted 10 months ago #

30. Imaofthree
    Member

    I think it depends on what you are used to. If you grew up with a pet, you aren't afraid. But many frum people especially the NYC folk have never had a pet so of course they are terrified. We have two orange cats. My daughter's friends thought they were lions. :)

    Posted 10 months ago #

31. yaakov doe
    Member

    We only have animals on the table, fully cooked of course.

    Posted 10 months ago #

32. oomis
    Member

    There was a story a number of years ago about a little girl who saw a dog coming down the block and ran across the street. Unfortunately, there was a car coming down the block and the girl never made it to the other side.

    The dog is not as dangerous as the car. Be careful. "

    This story resonates with me, as my own daughter who is terrified of dogs (with reason), did virtually the same thing. She was 9 or 10 and walking the two blocks to shul with my then 5 year old son. A dog came down the street (not a frequent occurrence) and she let go of my son and ran right into traffic (fortunately there WAS no traffic at that moment, or I would be writing a very different story). That is how scared she was.

    Thwe reason for the fear is that we were under siege one summer by a pack of feral dogs, including dobermans, rottweilers, and German Shepherds. We never knew where they came from, but they took refuge in my yard, and we could not get the police or Animal Control to come for them. In fact we were told to try to trap them. WERE THEY KIDDING???????????? They would run off and return, at random

    Anyway, these dogs were very bold and snarly, and one even came up on my porch and jumped at her. I shooed him away with a broom and a pitcher of water. My daughter was so traumatized, she wouldn't go out of the house without one of us with her, for months afterward. We heard later that two people in our neighborhood were bitten by one or more of them, one of them VERY seriously, needed a lot of surgery. Not all dogs are friendly, even to an animal lover, which I happen to be.

    Posted 10 months ago #

33. Git Meshige
    Member

    The real reason why frum Askenazi Jews are afraid of dogs is quite simple. In Europe during the Holocaust and even prior to the Holocaust, Jews were terrorized by dogs. The Nazi's YMS used dogs to intimidtae and threaten them. So its genetic kind of. Even though today we thankfully do not have to endure what they went through, yet the fear of dogs was instilled in us by our parents and Grandparents and great grandparents.

    Posted 10 months ago #

34. SaysMe
    O pen, says me

    in my family, we're all animal lovers except one who was bitten by a dog at age 2. We've had gerbils, a turtle, fish, and birds. i've always wanted a bunny :). my mother wants a cat, my father a dog, but neither of those is happening.the female terror is beyond my comprehension, but i know quite a few girls who like animals, and even more women 40+. though i have only seen 1 person really freeze in fear when a dog jumped on her skirt. others just scream and run.i admit big dogs i'll avoid unless i know the owner, only because i've seen too many jump up on ppl and i dont want that experience, esp since i'd likely get knocked down :). Seems to me its becomng more and more common to fear pets though, because while little kids arent naturally afraid, when you see how the mothers grab their kids and run when they see a dog, its expectable for the kids to learn to run too. Why more now? Two/three generations ago, many lived on farms, or at least bought their chicken and fish live. so there was no fear to teach their kids. but nowadays...

    Posted 10 months ago #

35. CRious
    Member

    @mommamia22, yes there are halachos regarding animals, and this may also be the reason frum jews don't really have them.
    They are muktzah on shabbos. Can't move them. Taking them on a walk might be different, but moving them with your hands is assur. Yes, I'm sure there are people who say otherwise, but I'm talking halacha here.

    To answer the original question, while I don't believe they are to be feared, there is good reason not to have them. We (as frum jews) believe in spending our money, efforts, time on things to help us in our growth. I'm not saying you can't enjoy ice cream. But why bring an animal into the house when you have so much more to be doing? Teach your kids some more. If you have free time, study yourself. Give some money to tzedakah. It's just a misuse of our valuable resources.

    Anyway, Jews not having dogs will understandably cause Jews to be afraid of them as well. They don't get to experience their pleasant side.

    Just my two cents.

    Posted 10 months ago #

36. Sam2
    The Even-Keeled and Erudite Shmuely Wollenberger from Las Vegas

    CRious: It is not at all Pashut that an animal that you own is Muktzeh. Many, many Poskim are Mattir moving them.

    Posted 10 months ago #

37. Syag Lchochma
    Tell it to me, and I will tell you if it's Loshon Hara :)

    I never liked dogs, even before a german shepard randomly came up to me on the street and bit me in the stomach. I think they smell and their drool grosses me out. We have a bunny though, and we are house sitting one while his owner is at camp. And we have two cockatiels, a turtle and a newt and some fish. Our hamsters never lasted long cuz we had mice and they would get into the mouse poison when they would sneak out of the cage :( The rest are doing pretty well. I really wanted a cat but we have allergies here.

    Posted 10 months ago #

38. takahmamash
    Member

    Yes, I'm sure there are people who say otherwise, but I'm talking halacha here.

    Guess what? The people who say otherwise are also talking halacha. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are the final arbiter as to what is halachically correct.

    Posted 10 months ago #

39. Shticky Guy
    THE SHTICKIEST POSTER IN THE ©®

    I don't want to get off-topic here, but why are you writing Hashem
    as hash-m ? You skip a letter for no reason

    Well here's a quotation from the NY Times "Using a Hebrew name for God, she added, “That’s what Ha-Shem wants from us."

    You see, even they do not write His name without a "-"

    Posted 10 months ago #

40. zahavasdad
    Member

    To answer the original question, while I don't believe they are to be feared, there is good reason not to have them. We (as frum jews) believe in spending our money, efforts, time on things to help us in our growth. I'm not saying you can't enjoy ice cream. But why bring an animal into the house when you have so much more to be doing? Teach your kids some more. If you have free time, study yourself. Give some money to tzedakah. It's just a misuse of our valuable resources.

    I am not a pet person, but most psychologists say that Pets have a positive effect on people. People who live alone for example are much happier when they have a pet. My grandparents had a dog and it was a good feeling when it went up to you for attention to be petted

    Posted 10 months ago #

41. MorahRach
    Member

    Cholent to a dog!?!? You will be cleaning the carpet for days

    Posted 10 months ago #

42. Toi
    beware the cleats

    avik and momma- move to yerushalayim. then youll understand.

    Posted 10 months ago #

43. mommamia22
    Member

    I lived in yerushalayim for quite a while.
    I know they're more like rats.

    Posted 10 months ago #

44. Toi
    beware the cleats

    then you know that screaming at them doesnt usually work. my wife and i happen to be very fond of animals. but not yerushalmi cats.

    Posted 10 months ago #

45. Avi K
    Member

    Toi, as a matter of fact, there is a cat which evry so often appears out of nowhere and runs up to me to be petted. This has been going on for ten years so I have decided to name it "Gilgul".However, I don't understand your distinction between Yerushalmi and non-Yerushalmi cats.

    Posted 10 months ago #

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