Gog umagog

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  • #1440392

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Hi everyone. I used to think that we need to expect some pretty awful casualties right before Moshiach comes and maybe that’s why some people are unfortunately happy to remain in golus.

    However I have looked up the topic and have happily found that not to be the case. So we can all fully await and daven for moshiach with a full heart😀.

    If this is news to anyone I’ll be happy to discuss. For starters (since I can’t post links), you can Google gog umagog Rebbe, and click on the video segment of the Rebbe speaking on it.

    That together with current developments seem to show that the war is being fought spiritually, and the nations are being defeated at their source. And now we are seeing the physical results in current events.

    #1440522

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    That’s old news. Are you really claiming to have just found out about that sicha or just a smooth way introduce it to this forum?

    #1440543

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Cuz I was looking up the topic because of current developments with trump and Israel

    #1440542

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    I just saw it about a month ago

    #1440556

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    It’s a pretty known topic in chabad since they always argue about what gog umagog is in contrast to the Navi and Talmud that sicha is always their main point. But hey if you never knew then you never knew…

    #1440697

    rational jew
    Participant

    I think the OP is not trying to state the obvious but to hear different sides of the subject. Without yet checking what the Rebbe says (although I intend to,) I think the proper approach is to realise that every negative prophecy may happen, but can change for the positive if we do Teshuvah.
    Yirmiyahu 18, 7: One instant I may speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to uproot and to demolish and to destroy. 8. And when that nation repents of its evil for which I spoke concerning it, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to it.

    #1440699

    rational jew
    Participant

    I would think that calming everyone down instead of encouraging them to do Teshuvah so that the bad part of the war won’t happen is the opposite of what Hashem wants.

    #1440705

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Exactly!

    Also I’ve heard the holocaust being referred to as chevlei moshiach, could that be gog umagog too? Or two separate things

    #1440704

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    That’s usually how it works. But some will argue that for sure it’s only a spiritual war. Who knows. Obviously that’s best case scenario that no Jews would be impacted.

    #1440711

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    I also heard something fascinating -something like the number 424 (?) is related to Moshiach, and is the number Hashem will use to fight the war of moshiach. Could look up the source isf anyone is interested.

    Donald trumps name is gematria that number and he is being used to fight the nations on Yerushalayim.

    That and the sicha mentioned above plus another video on the subject from Rabbi Simon Jacobsons my life Chassidus applied video series, combines for a fascinating view of current events.

    Maybe this war of the nations against Yerushalayim is it! And Hashem is just laughing at them and defeating them using Edom trump.

    #1440729

    jakob
    Participant

    Iran is Gog

    #1440768

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Shlucha- either you are really naive or just pretending not to have heard of these things so that others will accept it. I’m sure you heard all of these ideas since it is basic chabad talk.
    “Also I’ve heard the holocaust being referred to as chevlei moshiach, could that be gog umagog too?”
    -I wonder where you happened to “hear” that since that is a chabad opinion. It also happens to be a very “clear” opinion. You also mention jacobson who is a chabad Rabbi so that pretty much strengthens the fact that you are spreading around chabad views of the matter. I have no problem with it but why act as if you “happened” to hear something when it’s obvious all these ideas come from within your own derech.
    Regarding that opinion I also urge to check what the Ben Ish Chai had to say about it. I think there was a similar view actually.
    Also aren’t gog and Magog actual Kings that will fight one another?
    Let’s say the current events unfolding are as if Trump (EDOM) tries to get a piece of Jerusalem, do you think everything will happen this quietly and no big wars? Also isn’t gog to be killed and buried in Israel?

    #1440792

    Bitul
    Participant

    @litvishechossid
    Here you go again, trying to start another machlokes… pls stop cuz no one enjoys it.

    #1440851

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @litvishechossid

    “-I wonder where you happened to “hear” that since that is a chabad opinion. It also happens to be a very “clear” opinion .”

    Yes I read it in hayom yom. What’s wrong with that? You don’t seem to have an issue with Joseph quoting Rabbi Miller all day, and I don’t have an issue with you writing your Rabbonim, if you do… Seems to me you don’t and are just out to attack lubavitchers, dunno why. Contribute some info, Torah, G-dly enlightenment etc for all of us to enjoy. How bout that?

    ״when it’s obvious all these ideas come from within your own derech.”

    Well mostly, besides the doom and gloom I first posted, but yeah makes sense I would hear hear And learn more from my Rabbonim, if you want to share another view, go right ahead.

    “Regarding that opinion I also urge to check what the Ben Ish Chai had to say about it.”

    Tell us

    #1440869

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    “Also aren’t gog and Magog actual Kings that will fight one another?”

    Interestingly the Rebbe mentioned in a sicha that Gog is Russia, (as we know gog is from the north of EY), and it is being fought spiritually and will fall peacefully.this will be a preparation for the Geula.

    Shortly thereafter, the communist regime did fall peacefully.

    “Let’s say the current events unfolding are as if Trump (EDOM) tries to get a piece of Jerusalem, do you think everything will happen this quietly and no big wars? Also isn’t gog to be killed and buried in Israel?”

    See above. Also, I think trump is being used to fight the evil of the nations – in other words he’s Hashem’s player, so to say, not the bad guy.

    Just for a story to answer further:

    The Rebbe came out with the tefillin campaign in 1967 because he said it would serve as a protection for the soldiers, as it says about tefillin that the nations will see and be afraid of you.

    Many many soldiers and commanders put on tefilin then, and the results were the inexplicable 6 day war.

    Also, the Baba Sali used to predict every war in eretz Yisrael. One year, he predicted a war but it never happened. Surprised, his followers asked what had happened. He responded, how was I to know that the Lubavitcher Rebbe would come out with mivtza ois bsefer Torah and thereby push the war into Lebanon?

    So yes, wars can be and have been fought spiritually in our times.

    Just look how Hashem is protecting us! All the Arab countries around are chaotic, and too busy with their own issues to focus on destroying us, and the one threat left, Iran is also now facing their own issues.

    #1440884

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Also, the Baba Sali used to predict every war in eretz Yisrael. One year, he predicted a war but it never happened. Surprised, his followers asked what had happened. He responded, how was I to know that the Lubavitcher Rebbe would come out with mivtza ois bsefer Torah and thereby push the war into Lebanon?

    He could have predicted it.

    #1440887

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @daasyochid the Rebbe came out with the campaign only after his prediction

    #1440888

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @rationaljew

    Another nugget you may find interesting :

    The gemara teaches ain Yisrael nigalin ela biteshuva. Then the gemara asks the obvious, what if they don’t?

    It answers, that in that case Hashem will appoint a melech koshe khaman, and then we’ll do teshuva and be redeemed.

    The Rebbe comments that the comparison to Haman instead of the many sonei Yisrael, is to teach us that just as Haman looked very scary but didn’t end up harming even one Jew, so too in our case, if Hashem will ever need to resort to such measures.

    #1440886

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @rationaljew

    “I would think that calming everyone down instead of encouraging them to do Teshuvah so that the bad part of the war won’t happen is the opposite of what Hashem wants”

    Why must we be smacked around to do anything positive? I think the Rubashkin story just proved that we can units and join together for joyous reasons,and not just for tragedies hl”t.

    The holocaust didn’t result in much teshuva in fact many people went off. Ours is a very weak generation and we need positive reinforcement.

    Remember, teshuva only takes a second. It’s about a Mindset switch. As is known from the halacha that a woman is considered sofek mekudeshes if her husband was mekadesh her al minus shehu tzaddik gamur, even if he turns out to be a Rasha, and the reason is, shema hirher teshuva b’osa shaah.

    Im sure most Jews, my not yet frum relatives amongst them, when they see the process become more and more talk, they’ll all return to their roots.

    #1441306

    YW Moderator-100
    Moderator
    #1441315

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @mods what are you saying over the limit? Are you aware of all the other super long comments here? I replied to everyone. Should I just break it up to a few posts what the point? I think whatever mod is sitting there for the last few days has a biased agenda! When you want you let comments through which consist of 2 pages!

    #1441316

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @shlucha-I will ignore bituls comment since he should first consider curbing his own attacks which were quite clearly displayed on other threads where even moderators had to step in and warn him about attacking Gedolim.
    I’m not out to attack lubavitch at all. There are just certain attitudes that sometimes need to be addressed. Btw did you only start learning hayom Yom? You seem too educated to skip a basic daily learning.
    In general I know that from conversations I’ve had or heard with lubavitchers, they will sometimes toss up a subject and pretend they just heard about it in order for others to sort of accept what they have to say, rather then doing it in a way as if they are coming to teach you. If you want to know why I am upset at certain things you can read my previous comment/threads, look at articles on col including their hateful comments which get approved much easier than on YWN, or hear daily talk in crown heights.

    #1441317

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    You ask me about Joseph, Joseph is a mole and his sole purpose is to stir up anger. I choose to ignore him rather than support his cause and entertain him.
    Also before you accuse me of only trying to attack lubavitch and that I should contribute Torah, if you haven’t noticed, most of my comments include Torah views and opinions outside of chabad. Including the Menorah and many other topics which I actually emailed a big chabad Rabbi with sources about the menorah shape and I am yet to hear back if ever. Just to put it straight once and for all in a nice way, I have no problem with chabad, and I love the Lubavitcher Rebbe. The only things that I and many others dislike, which actually has nothing to do with the Rebbe, is the attitude of lubavitchers that you cannot/don’t want to learn Torah or seforim from other Gedolim, not mention them in any of your talks/farbrengens, display an arrogance about your opinions and expect everyone to agree with you.

    #1441318

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    And that’s all well and good that you only stay within your own mindset, except for the fact that you get offended if/when other dont mention chabad sources, claim that it proves everyone hates you, non stop bashing of others/misnagdim by your farbrengens and shabbos tables as if it’s a mitzvah to do so, and use the fact that others were happy for rubashkin being released as a “proof” that everyone needs chabad. Why always make everything about yourself is my question? There is no other yiddishe group that does that. And why all the hypocrisy? For example even the menorah in 770 by the chazan had round branches in the earlier years and there are pics and videos. So why campaign against everyone as if it’s the difference between eating kosher or treif? Can you not understand there are 70 panim l’Torah and Elu v’Elu divrei Eloikim Chaim! I am not trying to attack or stir anything I wish there would be complete achdus that is why I care so much. But how could there if you separate yourselves from klal yisroel, believe that your way is the right way (which is fine) but also the ONLY way for everyone else as well. And please don’t try to convince me otherwise since I speak from experience and I also pointed many things out on previous comments

    #1441377

    Bitul
    Participant

    @litvishechossid
    Gee, you never stop; it’s not even funny…
    You say that you choose to ignore my comment… and then you go on to do just the opposite!
    You have no good attack to bring up about gog umagog and lubavitch so instead you bring up old arguments such as the menorah (which you’ll probably still be talking about by Pesach). By the way, I spoke to a few friends who were in crown heights for Chanukah and they all told me that the menorah in 770 was straight, so either you’re just trying to spread false propaganda or you didn’t notice the second menorah which was straight and the curved one was simply for those who have the Minhag of having curved.

    About that incident about the gadol hador comment, you shouldn’t really judge without having seen the comment first. Besides, if I quoted all the times that mods had to step in to warn you, I would be fast asleep by the 18th comment.

    And about the word limit frustration… okay let’s help you understand step by step. It may just seem that some comments are too long but really they’re not and they just look too long because there are 2 spaces between each paragraph (a well know writing tactic that you clearly haven’t picked up on yet). In addition to simply looking nicer it also makes it easier to read. If you ever need to check if your comment is passed the word limit then you can copy and paste it onto Word to see how many words it is. Your welcome.

    #1441383

    The holocaust didn’t result in much teshuva in fact many people went off.
    Ours is a very weak generation and we need positive reinforcement.

    You make it sound like the Ribbono shel Olam needs
    a lesson in how to be mechanech this generation…

    #1441425

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Nobody knows who Gog and Magog is and we are not supposed to figure out the Kaitz either

    #1441427

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @Bitul- You know what old friend, you really need to read my comments rather then scan them and then rant on and on. Firstly, what argument should I have against lubavitch gog u’magog? I dont need an “argument” just open up a Tanach and youll get your answer, besides for the fact that I already mentioned that source in my previous comments.
    “I spoke to a few friends who were in crown heights for Chanukah and they all told me that the menorah in 770 was straight, so either you’re just trying to spread false propaganda”
    -False propaganda? This clearly shows you have no intellectual understanding on what the argument was even about. Who was talking about the PRESENT DAY menorah in 770 ? Its clear as day that they use a straight branch menorah. Noone disputes that. Show me once where I mentioned 770 menorah present day!
    “or you didn’t notice the second menorah which was straight”
    -What second menorah? Have you ever even been to 770!Menorah for those whos minhag is curved? lol cute.
    I was referring to the EARLIER years where the menorah had curved branches and check COL recent article “Recording of the Rebbe crying” link removed and you will see the menorah by the amud was clearly not straight, rather ROUND branches. And later years it became 90 degree angle including the chanukah menorah, and then became straight branches. So you, my friend, are the false accuser.

    Btw thanks for the heads up for long comments, didnt know you were part of the moderator team. And no, mods didnt warn me they just rightfully and respectfully asked me to tone it down, and I’m sure many of them agree with me which is why I have many comments posted. (look I put a double space in there just for you)

    #1441431

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Besides, Not once did I attack anyone in that comment. I was just stating facts and if the truth hurts then it does. And you know what, I really dont need to see what you had to say about any Gadol Hador since on the chabad websites you can find enough articles on Litvishe Gedoilim with many “nice” comments putting the respectful title of “yimach sh’mo” before they write his name that get easily approved onto the site. So am I hateful for pointing these things out! If so, then I guess I’m just a hateful person.

    #1441442

    gilda
    Participant

    Remember in Mitzrayim one out of five went out – let’s work on being Zoche

    #1441450

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    While the leadership of the frum tizbur is dancing around and offering barachos to the President for releasing Sholom Mordechai, the Trumpkopf himself continues his mindless taunting of North Korea as a pretext to launch an attack, threatens the integrity of our criminal justice system, and ammounces a contest to deligitimize the news media (and that was only this morning). The total obcession with one individual’s freedom (which was long overdue) has blinded us to the non-stop downward spiral playing out in the WH>

    #1441451

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    @daasyochid the Rebbe came out with the campaign only after his prediction

    He could have predicted the Rebbe’s campaign.

    #1441454

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    and ammounces a contest to deligitimize the news media

    They don’t need his help. They’ve done a terrific job delegitimizing themselves.

    #1441461

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @DaasYochid ☕
    – The only way for a nation and its people to stay truly free is to have two sides of the media voicing their opinions. It keeps the land in a balance. I am not a Trump hater but I am very aware of many alarming things hes said or has displayed. Once a leader achieves one part of the media to be silenced, then propaganda is born. He’s already shown he has no problem retweeting anti semitic tweets such as the one at hillary clinton with the dollar bills in the background and Jewish star on top of it. Oh ya, it was a “sheriffs” star I forgot. And there are many other examples such as a campaign ad with nazi soldiers in the background(look it up). It was a “printing error”.
    Also the free use of jewish stereotypical terms to a room full of Jews at the coalition. ” You wont vote for me because you like to control your politicians with your money?” Wow did he really say that?
    Remember also that the Germans didnt “turn” in one day. It started with silencing the media, and then the propaganda, and ultimately final control of the country and its people. Just keep in mind that if ever someone spirals out of control, the right is always the more dangerous side. Even in Germany didnt many Jews enthusiastically vote for the new “leader”? Again, not comparing chas V’Shalom, just reminding to keep alert and remember the Government quickly forget about anyone they dont need anymore. Check the warning in Pirkei Avos.

    #1441467

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I went to Aish and heard a really fascinating class linking this war to nuclear war, which seems to be coming up.

    #1441492

    Put down the gun
    Participant

    Gog and magog could be whatever war is happening at any given time. Moshiach could come every day. Achakloi bchol Yom sheyovoi.On election day I voted for Moshiach because he’s good for the Jews. How about this, instead of people Hocking a tchynik about goig and magoig, we should be focused on our machshavah dibbur and maaseh.

    #1441487

    Geordie613
    Participant

    Here’s my 2x 2 Cents to this conversation.

    According to Rav Hirsch, Gog is the king of a nation called Magog.

    I heard on a shiur by Rabbi Wachsman (could have been his Erev yom kippur teshuva drosho from last year – not sure) the the Chofetz Chaim said, we’ve already lived through Gog uMagog, and nothing further is needed for Moshiach to come, if we deserve it. Now that was before the 2nd World War obviously.

    #1441511

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Litvisherchossid, do you really still think Trump is an antisemite?

    #1441512

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Litvish: Are you an ex-Lubavitcher or something? Who care’s how much Hayom yom Chabadshlucha knows? I’m not familiar with any of the Chabad shittahs that you say are “well known” on this thread.

    As to the media thing, the “balance” you describe simply doesn’t exist. Every single major media outlet is deeply leftist: NPR, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, every college radio station, etc. All conservatives have is Fox, which isn’t even consistently conservative. When Trump was running in the primaries, every liberal outlet targeted him, and even Fox had a clear bias against him (they liked the “safe” [RINO] candidates like Rubio).

    #1441553

    Joseph
    Participant

    Eliyahu Hanovi will come three days before Moshiach to announce his pending arrival. Obviously this will be after any necessary war, Gog uMogeg, etc. Thus logically it makes sense that that war could have occurred already (WWII?) and Eliyahu Hanovi can come any day now.

    #1441656

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @neville-well, since “you” are not familiar then it must mean noone is. I forgot that you know everything, I should have scaled it based on your familiarity.

    #1441654

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @daas- I didn’t say he is, just not sure how fond of us he really is.

    #1441547

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @litvishechossid

    Look, I’m sorry you’re carrying all this baggage about lubavitch. Maybe you can ask whoever offended your to ask Mechila. But what you’re doing now is no different than anti altruism: you’re holding every lubavitcher responsible for any wrong a lubavitcher ever did to you. Not only that but you attribute every flaw you ever saw in any lubavitcher to every lubavitcher. That’s not right or fair or good middos or anything else positive.

    So if you have an issue with something I say, quote it and ask me. But to simply be waiting to pounce on me because I dated to quote Chassidus or the Rebbe with every wrong a lubavitcher has ever done is ridiculous so I won’t be able to respond to such posts.

    #1441550

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @daasyochid I appreciate humour but don’t think it’s use is appropriate to use it to make light of ruach Hakodesh.

    #1441554

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    “You make it sound like the Ribbono shel Olam needs
    a lesson in how to be mechanech this generation…”

    Obviously not, He told us through the Nossi hador that this generation needs a chessed approach. He must have had His reasons for the holocaust, but I was just saying that it wasn’t too cause us to do teshuva because teshuva dust result from the catastrophe and if that was the point He wouldn’t have done it to begin with.

    #1441690

    Lubavitcher
    Participant

    We learned from the Gerrer Rebbes Sefer. Our teacher brought us in copies if multiple pages and we learned it,,,

    #1441697

    Joseph
    Participant

    ChabadShlucha: Obviously you also mistakenly think that Tach V’Tat didn’t come from Hashem due to Yidden taking in shul, since nebech Yidden still talk in shul. So you have a machlokes with the Tosfos Yom Tov who clearly said that terrible murderous tragedy against Klal Yisroel was a result of talking in shul, and your personal shitta is that the Tosfos Yom Tov is mistaken.

    #1441681

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    *Semitism
    * Dared

    #1441682

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    *didn’t

    #1441709

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Chabbad shlucha
    “I also heard something fascinating -something like the number 424 (?) is related to Moshiach, and is the number Hashem will use to fight the war of moshiach. ..Donald trumps name is gematria that number ”

    So is חצי מנה פלאפל . Felafel is the real tool that will bring Moshiach. Eat more felafel. Ideally Half a felafel, so you can have some to share and stay away from the clown-demon Donald Trump whose name is gematria שד לץ

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