Interesting Halachic Tidbit

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  • #1381439

    Eli51
    Participant

    This week many people who Daven Ashkenazi went back to Tachanun yesterday the day after Isru Chag. This would seem that the people who went back to Tachanun could say hespeidim @ levayos & say a Keil Malei this week while those that daven nusach sefard or don’t say Tachanun cannot.

    #1381488

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Not all Nusach Ashkenaz minyanim say tachnun before beis Marcheshvan. I am not sure you are correct about hespeidim or not.

    #1381511

    Eli51
    Participant

    To iacisrmmà I didn’t say all people who Daven nisach Ashkenaz say Tachanun but the ones that do it’s definitely not an aveira for them to say hespeidim @ a levaya _ they can say Keil Malei @ davening. Tachanun usually goes hand in hand with hespeidim.

    #1381632

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Eli51: Let me clarify. You wrote “while those that daven nusach sefard or don’t say Tachanun cannot.” I am not sure that your statement that nussach sefard cannot say a kel molei or make hespeidim is correct when it is only a minhag not to say tachnun. For example, there is a minhag not to say tachnun during the shivas yemei hamiluim (23 Adar – 1 Nissan) yet hespeidim are delivered and kel molei’s are made during that time.

    The Aruch Hashulchan uses the expression “V’Yesh shein noflim ahl peneihem ahd achar Rosh Chodesh Marcheshvan indicating that it is only a minhag.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9102&st=&pgnum=428

    #1381713

    yitzyk
    Participant

    Don’t confuse Hesped and Tachanun. In Nissan, we do not fast or make hespedim, and also don’t say Tachanun.

    In Tishrei – from after Succos, there is only a minhag not to say Tachanun because most of the month already past without tachanun. Hespeddim and Fasts are still practiced.

    I am just saying what I learned from the Mechaber, Remah, and Mishne Berrura. I am not claiming to understand it – is it in fact Rov?

    #1381709

    Eli51
    Participant

    To Iacisrmma yesterday I went to a levaya which the Rabbonim said we can’t make hespeidim because there is still the happiness from the chag in this month. These were Chassidish Rabbonim or those who daven sefard. If the MC would have been an Rav who davens Ashkenaz chances are there would have been hespeidim.

    #1382113

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    yitzyk: That is what I was trying to convey (you said it better). However, since the OP has now clarified that he was at a levaya with chassidisheh rabbonim it makes sense why he thinks people who don’t say tachnun “can’t” deliver hespeidim.

    However there may be a difference between Nissan and Tishrei. The reason why we don’t say tachnun in Nissan is that the first 12 days each have a kedushah as the nessiem brought their korbanos for the chanukas hamishkan and each day is considered a yom tov; erev pesach, pesach itself, and isru chag, most of the month (22 of 23 days in chutz l’arretz) has passed with “kedushah” so we treat the other days as “kodesh” and we don’t say tachnun or make hespeidim. (Mishna Berurah, 429:2 SK 7).

    The Shaarei Teshuva in Sif 131 states two reasons why we don’t say tachnun until Rosh Chodesh Cheshvan.
    1. SHEHHACHODESH MERUBAH B’MOADOS (seems to be a different reason then “kedushah”).
    2.Since the month NICHNAS B’ENUI RAUI HU SHEHYEITZEI B’SIMCHA.
    However he states UBEMIDONOS EILU EIN HAMINHAG KEIN.

    Eli51: It could be based on what I quoted above from the Shaarei Teshuva about the month ending in simcha is what the Rav you heard was referring to. However, the Ezras Torah luach mentions that on the 4 days between Yom Kippur and Succos we don’t say tachnun nor are we mazkir neshomos, it only says that “we do not say Tzidkoscha Tzedek because it is isru chag; (some do not say Tachanun until after Rosh Chodesh Cheshvon)” it does not state anything about hespeidim or keil moleh.

    #1382282

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    The NITEI GAVRIEL does not mention whether hespeidim can be made in these days, but does state both shitos as to saying or not saying tachnun.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46442&st=&pgnum=478&hilite=

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