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YWN Coffee Room » Yom Tov » Chanukah

Maoz Tzur Tunes

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  1. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    What's your favorite tune for maoz tzur?

    Tonight I sang O say can you see, and it turned out great. I also tried the Hatikva and it works well too. I like to sing a different song for every verse to make it sound interesting.

    What's your favorite tune?

    Ps. The popular tune for Maoz tzur is an old German folk song from the 1600's and also used in church choirs.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. farrocks
    Joseph

    The popular tune was used for Maoz Tzur before it was ever coopted by any church.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. WIY
    Managed to post for 3 years without getting a subtitle

    The old popular one is very hard on the voice. Maybe its just me but every time I sing it I get out of breath and feel a bit strained.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. WIY
    Managed to post for 3 years without getting a subtitle

    Farrocks
    Really? Where'd you hear or see that?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. WolfishMusings
    The Wolf

    We use two different tunes. My wife grew up with one tune whereas I inherited a different tune from yeshiva.

    As a result, we switch off -- one night her tune, one night mine.

    The Wolf

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. WIY
    Managed to post for 3 years without getting a subtitle

    Wolf
    Its good to see that chivalry isn't dead :-)

    Ah freilichen chanukah!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. HaLeiVi
    Plays the aeolian harp by air

    The popular song, which I don't sing, matches the style of music from the era that Maoz Tzur was composed.

    Moreover, the tune fits exactly with the rhyming pattern, and its parenthetical rhyme. AB,ABBB,CC,B.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. yehudayona
    Member

    I don't have any evidence, but I think Farrocks is wrong. It certainly sounds like a church tune. Somebody should ask Velvel Pasternak.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    A rav once told me that a great deal of Nusach haTefila was copied from Church tunes, but that some was derived from the shirei haLeviim.

    How would such a musical heritage be kept in tact over so many years? And how do we account for the fact that different communities have vastly different nusachot?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. HaLeiVi
    Plays the aeolian harp by air

    Yehuda, it is silly to judge a style based on your small surroundings. What do they sing in your church? I never heard anything past the bells. Anyone familiar with old German songs can recognize the style.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    From Wikipedia:

    The most popular melody for the Hanukkah hymn has been identified by Birnbaum as an adaptation from the old German folk-song "So weiss ich eins, dass mich erfreut, das pluemlein auff preiter heyde," given in Böhme's "Altdeutsches Liederbuch" (No. 635); it was widely spread among German Jews as early as 1450. By an interesting coincidence, this folk-melody was also the first utilized by Luther for his German chorales. He set it to his "Nun freut euch lieben Christen gmein". It is the tune for a translation by F. E. Cox of the hymn "Sei lob und ehr dem höchsten gut," by J. J. Schütz (1640–1730). As such it is called "Erk" (after the German hymnologist), and, with harmonies by Bach, appears as No. 283 of "Hymns, Ancient and Modern" (London, 1875). The earliest transcription of the Jewish form of the tune is by Isaac Nathan, who set it (clumsily) to the poem "On Jordan's Banks" in Byron's "Hebrew Melodies" (London, 1815). Later transcriptions have been numerous, and the air finds a place in every collection of Jewish melodies. It was modified to the form now favoured by British Jews by Julian Lazarus Mombach, to whom is due the modulation to the dominant in the repetition of the first strain.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. HaLeiVi
    Plays the aeolian harp by air

    Rebdoniel, a lot of the common Nusach comes from the maharil, who was a Chazzan.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    The Maharil certainly is the av ha chazzanut.

    But it's interesting that much of nusach and Church plainchant shares the same musical identity- both follow pentatonic schemes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. BSD
    proud member, platinum member, remember, dismember, abi ah member!

    who can say who copied who.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. Torah613Torah
    (613)Torah²

    uneeq - I sing the regular tune but changing it is a cute idea.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    Torah613: Thanks. Tonight I tried Im Eshkochaich by Yaakov Shwekey. It works perfect. I think Racheim works too, but it can sound too depressing for Hanukka.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Torah613Torah
    (613)Torah²

    uneeq - LOL, does this drive your family crazy?
    Why do you spell Hanukka like that?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    What do you mean? I spelled hanukka the same way you did!?

    I'm not sure if it drives my wife crazy, though it definitely drove me crazy.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. Torah613Torah
    (613)Torah²

    Whatever, I totally lost the thread of this conversation.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. twisted
    pretzel

    so with the german tune uninversally spread among ashkenazim, are we all descendant/ branched from the Yekkes?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    Twisted: so with the german tune uninversally spread among ashkenazim, are we all descendant/ branched from the Yekkes?

    Yes, in the same way that we all are descendants of the Sephardic R' Shlomo Alkabetz from Tzfat.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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