July 24, 2011 at 7:42 pm #598188
Do you guys wear tzitzits daily in the summer? I have decided only to wear them when I leave the house to do business and be in the community. At home, I pass on donning them. Its just too hot out. But that said, I used to wear an undershirt under my tzitzis and then an over shirt. I have passed on the undershirt in this weather. Thus I have a bunch of wool tzitzis that I am wearing without a shirt underneath. Its not that comfortable overall, but it does breath. I might get some cotton ones sometime and that might make it much more comfortable, but the cotton tzitzis garments that I have purchased in the past (usually from Eichlers) really do not wash well. That said, its hot outside.
July 24, 2011 at 8:04 pm #789876
600 Kilo BearMember
Dress like A Poshiter Yid with your tzitzis OVER your shirt. I’ve done it indoors :). I’m not Ingarish so I don’t go out that way but it is comfortable.
July 24, 2011 at 8:12 pm #789877
Would you work all day in a hot bakery in the middle of the summer with 110 degree temperatures if you were told that your pay in the end of that day is two-hundred million dollars?
Do you have any idea of the tremendous Schar you get in Olam Haba for doing even the smallest of our heilige mitsvos?
Especially when the Mitzva is a difficult one?
Any amount of money or pleasure you can imagine pales in insignicance.
Think about it.
July 24, 2011 at 11:05 pm #789878
Considering I am probably the only jew outside of the local rabbis family in my town to ever wear Tzitzis daily, I am sure I am doing quite well. But I just dont wear them in the house. I think I’ll get some cotton ones next month maybe. Thats exactly what you need in this weather.
July 24, 2011 at 11:49 pm #789879
Get the cotton. Personally I can only stand to put the wool on on shabbos in this weather.
July 24, 2011 at 11:50 pm #789880
What are you getting at here you want someone to tell you that it’s ok not to keep the Torah in your house due to comfort issues?
July 25, 2011 at 12:02 am #789881
Oh, I am not keeping Torah in my house now? Considering I am not from your “frum” community and was raised on crabmeat and lobster, I’d say I am doing a huge kiddush hashem. But that said, I will suppose that my hours of reading Tanakh and Torah are not good enough for you. No I dont even have a shirt on at this hour. Its hot out. You can keep Torah your way, but do not denigrate another fellow yid for not being as super jewish as you think you are yourself.
July 25, 2011 at 12:08 am #789882
I’m in luck. I just found 3 pairs of cotton tzitzis in my dresser drawer. I think I had thought they were not useful any more. One has its tzitzis slightly trimmed. The other 2 look good to go. Saves me a good deal of $$$. So I am in good shape. And to the yid above, I think I might even wear them around the house now.
July 25, 2011 at 12:26 am #789883
basket of radishes
Why don’t you ask your Rabbi before making such a decision?
P.S. If the chassidim can go dressed up the way they do here in Boro park in 104 F heat then you can wear a pair of cotton Tzitzis!
July 25, 2011 at 12:26 am #789884
I think what people are trying to say is that the tone of your posts seems to suggest somewhat that you have already reached a point where you are comfortable in your level of frumkeit.
We are not questioning your frumkeit or sincerity, but we are a community where conformity is very important. As Hillel said “Do not separate yourself from the public”.
July 25, 2011 at 12:31 am #789885
So what are you getting at then?
July 25, 2011 at 12:52 am #789886
DHM- I have read numerous posts by you in the last few weeks and it is clearly apparant that you are an illiberal fellow who does not really understand the true nature of Torah service in our communities. There is nothing “disconcerting” about about a jew who does not wear tzitzis constantly in his own home. I personally am at the point where I NEVER leave home without them to go into the general community almost ever. That said, what is really disconcerting is your allegation ridden rhetoric that implies that you are not a really true Yidden unless you jump through every hoop known to the Jewish community. We are all clearly at different levels in our day and I personally feel it is a great accomplishment for a Jew living in a not so orthodox orientated city to be a Jew who wears Tzitzis where noone has ever seen a tzitzi before. That is an accomplishment. No Jew I have grown up with that I know wears tzitzis and I suppose that even the one who does is not truly orthodox as he tucks it into his pants so that noone can see them.
July 25, 2011 at 12:54 am #789887
Well said, I couldn’t agree more.
The last Rebel:
“What are you getting at here you want someone to tell you that it’s ok not to keep the Torah in your house due to comfort issues?”
Nobody is suggesting not keeping the Torah here. Wearing tzitzis is only a chiyuv while wearing a four-cornered beged, which BOR is probably not doing.
basket of radishes:
“Considering I am probably the only jew outside of the local rabbis family in my town to ever wear Tzitzis daily, I am sure I am doing quite well.”
That very well may be, but that’s no reason to not try to do even better.
“Considering I am not from your “frum” community and was raised on crabmeat and lobster, I’d say I am doing a huge kiddush hashem.”
Nobody is denying that.
“But that said, I will suppose that my hours of reading Tanakh and Torah are not good enough for you.”
Nobody is suggesting that.
“You can keep Torah your way, but do not denigrate another fellow yid for not being as super jewish as you think you are yourself.”
If you post an explanation of why you have decided not to wear tzitzis during the summer on a frum forum, you should not be surprised when people disagree with you. But that’s all they’re doing – disagreeing (albeit rather vehemently) with you. Nobody is denigrating you, and nobody has said a thing about you not being as super jewish as they are. We just disagree with you.
July 25, 2011 at 12:57 am #789888
How would I know who “Agrees with me” or not. I live in a city of some 5000 yidden and only one rabbi and his sons wear tzitzis. At least they do so when I saw them in the synagogue. Noone here has much communication with anyone else to discuss tzitzis. Most have never heard of them. The real question is why are there so few real torah influnces in this city of several hundred thousand that sits on the corner bed of a very large Jewish community in a neighboring town. That is the real question.
July 25, 2011 at 1:08 am #789889
Check out an undershirt/tzitzis combination called “Neatzit” i think, probably available online or over the phone from any Judaica store. It’s cool and fulfills the requirements.
July 25, 2011 at 1:13 am #789890
“How would I know who “Agrees with me” or not.”
Well you could theoretically take the time to actually see what people are saying, instead of just assuming everyone is denigrating you…
“I have read numerous posts by you in the last few weeks and it is clearly apparant that you are an illiberal fellow who does not really understand the true nature of Torah service in our communities.”
Who’s denigrating who now?
July 25, 2011 at 1:22 am #789891
mw13- that is not denigration. That is observation.
I have seen some mesh tzitzis on eichlers. Are these comfortable?
I see that the tzitzis are actually made out of some sort of polyester string rather then the string of a usual set of tzitzis.
July 25, 2011 at 1:52 am #789893
It sounds like you are really bothered by the fact that there are very few Torah influences in your community. Well maybe there are people who can do something about that if we knew which community you were talking about. Listen I live in Boro Park so its hard to know what its like to live in such a place but if we knew where you lived and if you think that the community would be interested in some Kiruv work done there maybe something can happen if we knew where you are talking about.
July 25, 2011 at 2:12 am #789894
WIY- yes it is true. But that said, I am no where near you. I will not post my community here right now. I do have to say that even though there are so many Torah influcences in the New York corridor, I am still very sad that I have cousins who live there who have so very little to do with yiddishkeit and perhaps they are neglected among the majority of the observant.
But that said, I found my way in life. I am quite happy. Sadly, I just have too few people to discuss Jewish life with and that probably is why I am here on this type of forum sharing and discussing and pursuing Jewish learning.
July 25, 2011 at 2:27 am #789895
I live in NYC area (Lakewood counts as NYC area) but I have been many times “out of town” and it is very different.
When you first realize it, it can be quite shocking.
Just for example Daily Minyanim can be difficult to find (especially MIncha and Maariv) Kosher Items are scarcier (Most national companies have several product runs and the ones in the Northeast are Kosher when runs in the South and West are not). Eating out is unheard of.
Taking off early for Friday can be next to impossible. “Secondary” Jewish Holidays like Sukkoth and Shavouth are unheard of. (Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur Chanukah and Peseach are usually well known)
People who can be frum in such areas should have an extra schar for living there and able to stay frum under such environments
July 25, 2011 at 2:43 am #789896
I sometimes wear tzitzis in the home during the summer, but many days not. Depends on what I’m doing. And I only wear cotton. Wool tzitzis are way too uncomfortable for me, summer or winter. But I always put on tzitzis in the morning, just I take them off sometimes during the day.
July 25, 2011 at 2:58 am #789897
Bor. Keep it up. Take it day by day. As they say “baby steps”.
July 25, 2011 at 3:25 am #789898
BOR- why don’t you wear comfortable cotton tzitzis at home, even though they don’t wash well. Wear them only for at home.
July 25, 2011 at 3:29 am #789899
Ok. Maybe I shouldn’t be posting here because I’m a woman, but I have a question. My son became very overheated today outdoors, and vomited and felt ill and lethargic for quite some time. My husband argued that tzitzis only needs to be worn if a man is wearing a four cornered garment. I, of course argued that it’s a mitzvah. I hear the supporting arguments from everyone, but, now, after today, I wonder, if having an extra layer can endanger a child’s health(and you might argue that wearing it actually protected him), but he was wearing the neat zit, and realistically, it is like wearing a second t-shirt under the first. Is it, in fact, a mitzvah to wear it all the time, or only to “add” it to a four cornered garment, when worn?
July 25, 2011 at 3:33 am #789900
Just to be clear the issue has at hand has nothing to do with tzitzis but rather with the lack of rabbinical presence in your town?
July 25, 2011 at 3:54 am #789901
Whenever there is the slightest risk of life, the positive fulfillment of commandments is always deferred.
During the 40 years of the Jewish people being in the desert the Bris Milah (circumcision) was not done.
July 25, 2011 at 3:57 am #789902
momma- that is something to discuss with your physician. If its over 100 degrees outside it makes little sense to dress in layers no matter how stong you want to show your faith to be. To me if you are going to risk heat stroke due to layered clothing, take the layers off. Clearly our Creator knows what is going on.
July 25, 2011 at 4:30 am #789903
Before jumping to conclusions that its the Tzitzis, maybe the boy wasn’t drinking enough water, isn’t eating nutritiously, is staying out in the sun way too long…it really is ridiculous how people look for excuses not to do mitzvos. Its like me saying I have a headache maybe its my Yarmulke? Maybe I should stop wearing a Yarmulke?
July 25, 2011 at 8:36 am #789904
600 Kilo BearMember
BOR, I have suffered through many of your posts here and it is clear you are very immature. You are looking for attention and some people are giving it to you, which is a pity.
July 25, 2011 at 11:53 am #789905
Is it, in fact, a mitzvah to wear it all the time, or only to “add” it to a four cornered garment, when worn?
The mitzvah is to put tzitzis on a four cornered garment. But you get a mitzvah for wearing them all day. If I go up to the North Pole then I guess I would not be mechuyav in wearing tefllin the whole 6 months that the sun was down. But why would I want to give up that mitzvah?
Speak to your Rov. Maybe your son can hydrate more to counter the strong heat instead.
it makes little sense to dress in layers no matter how stong you want to show your faith to be.</em.
From this statement, it occurs to me that you might not know that the purpose of wearing tzitzis is not about showing your faith to the public but about a Biblical commandment to wear them, regardless of whether you’re a hermit or gregarious. Maybe I misunderstood your meaning here…
July 25, 2011 at 12:42 pm #789906
Yes. However, I do not wear wool in the summer, it is way too hot.
ursula momish has a good suggestion.
July 25, 2011 at 2:09 pm #789907
What’s the halachic (or minhug/hanhaga?) difference between wearing wool vs. cotton tzitzis?
July 25, 2011 at 2:30 pm #789908
Excuses can always be found…………
July 25, 2011 at 2:58 pm #789909
“I have seen some mesh tzitzis on eichlers. Are these comfortable?
I see that the tzitzis are actually made out of some sort of p
polyester string rather then the string of a usual set of tzitzis.”
I wear only the polyester mesh. I wouldn’t be able to handle the heat if I had to wear cotton or wool. They are indeed comfortable and I highly recommend them.
July 25, 2011 at 3:07 pm #789910
the last- I agree. the heat is a nisayon. be happy that you guys can walk around without a shirt! Imagine us women. and there are women who only wear blouses/jackets and are all buttoned up! DO you have the a/c on at home?
July 25, 2011 at 3:10 pm #789911
“Who’s denigrating who now?”
also basket of radishes…if you arent joseph…when youre home youre more comfortable, so why would you not wear tzitzis? you wear them when you go out which has to be more uncomfortable…the whole thing seems backside backwards
July 25, 2011 at 3:10 pm #789912
While I agree that people look for excuses not to do mitzvos and that there is merit to exploring whether my son was drinking enough, staying in the sun too long etc., I would not respond to a question a person asks in such a sarcastic tone. Comparing possibly being overheated from a second layer of clothing is NOT the same as saying maybe I got a headache from a Kippah. Your wish to make a point/teach a lesson is lost on your silly comparison. Take people’s questions more seriously, and be Dan lekaf z’chus that someone wants to do the right thing and is therefore asking and answer respectfully.
July 25, 2011 at 3:10 pm #789913
I would think twice before wearing a wool tzitzis in very hot weather. Probably cotton is fine. But layers in very hot weather over 100 degrees, might be a problem. If it works for you fine. I would not suggest or force a child to wear them in that temperature and being a medical professional, I would bet other professionals might have some concern.
To the 600 pound gorilla- I am not sure you are here to be a friend of myself or interested in the conversations we post. Good luck with your challenges in life.
July 25, 2011 at 3:28 pm #789914
It’s hot out…but we really don’t have a choice…
Polyester Mesh is your best bet…
As for your community, I agree it is very hard when yuo are one of only a handful of observant Jews…You mentioned that you are not prepared to move yet, and NY is not the end all be all, but maybe you should try moving to a place that has a orthodox community. Doesn’t have to be as big as NY, but there are many even in the midwest…
July 25, 2011 at 4:11 pm #789916
I don’t believe wearing cotton tzisis makes you sooooo much warmer.I think it’s mind over matter. By the way, the halachas of tznius keeps women much warmer in the summer and I don’t think we complain……
July 25, 2011 at 4:52 pm #789918
maybe the fact that you are the only one in the comm doing such a thing makes it even harder for you to stand up and do what you think is really the right thing.
July 25, 2011 at 7:58 pm #789919
adorable that was the situation when I first started wearing tzitzis. It took me a full year or more to go from owning them to really wearing them. I wear them every time I leave the house. So I think I do fine, thanks.
July 25, 2011 at 8:02 pm #789920
maybe now you are telling yourself that its fine to take them off at home because at least you wear them outside….but thats not the case.
July 25, 2011 at 8:39 pm #789921
Avram in MDParticipant
basket of radishes,
I’ve observed from your comments here, including the fact that you wear tzitzis “out” but not in the house, and denigrating those who tuck them in (which I don’t, by the way), that you view the tzitzis as a sign for others of your Jewishness. When giving the mitzvah of tzitzis, however, the Torah says ?????????? ????? – and you will look upon them. The reality is that the tzitzis we wear are not for others to see and recognize that we are Jewish, but rather to remind us constantly that we are Jewish and have an obligation to fulfill Hashem’s mitzvos. In that respect, I can’t think of a more important place to wear tzitzis than when at home.
Also, speaking as a person who also became frum in a tiny town with a rav and his family being the only other frum Jews around, I cannot adequately express how different it is to live in a community with other frum Jews. Being frum alone is like lighting a candle in a dark forest. Being in a supportive community is like joining thousands of candles together into a great torch that is so much brighter. Please try to understand that before you knock your fellow Jews for “conforming” in their communities.
July 25, 2011 at 8:40 pm #789922
“What’s the halachic (or minhug/hanhaga?) difference between wearing wool vs. cotton tzitzis?”
If I’m not mistake, the Shulchan Orach holds one is only yotzeh with wool while the Rema also allows cotton. There is also some kind of machlokes if one is yotzeh with mesh tzitzis, although I don’t know the particulars.
“”Who’s denigrating who now?”
I stand corrected.
July 25, 2011 at 8:52 pm #789923
BOR: Correct me if I am wrong. I am under the impression that when you wear tzitzit outside of the home it shows the world who you are, but when you wear them at home it is for the sake of your own neshama.
Also, it has always been my experience that garments that are 100% cotton are far cooler than those blended with polyester or polyester on its own. Cotton is supposedly cooler and certainly absorbs perspiration much better than poly or a poly blend.
July 25, 2011 at 8:54 pm #789924
I must say that when I first put on the tzitzis, I thought I should put them in my pockets as I was afraid to “look that jewish” in public. I have clearly disavowed this idea. Tucking them to me is the same. It is just out of fear of being identified. Unless perhaps you are a doctor and must keep them from being soiled by infectuous innoculum.
I just feel that they are clearly meant to be worn out and by wearing them under your garment, you are really hiding your observance.
July 26, 2011 at 1:08 am #789925
I am a male and I wear cotton Tzitzis and I know first hand that the amount of heat it contributes is negligible. Its very thin. Frankly its hard to take someone seriously when they suggest that a pair of cotton tzitzis caused their son to have heat stroke, or overheat, especially when the most likely reasons are much more major factors like not drinking enough water, lack of nutrients (kids tend to skip meals or eat junk food and drink soda and other junk) or being out too long, or overexerting himself outdoors by playing too much ball…
Sorry not trying to knock you but you have to realize what it sounds like to suggest that the cotton Tzitzis is the cause.
July 26, 2011 at 1:10 am #789926
WIY, you are dangerous.
If there is the slightest risk we even defer the most stringent positive commandments.
July 26, 2011 at 2:06 am #789927
BOR….I can assure you they are not hiding their Jewishness… The kippa on their head pretty much tells everyone who they Are.
July 26, 2011 at 2:20 am #789928
It doesn’t work that way. Halacha dictates what is a risk and there is a clear process of determining risk. Theres a big difference between inconvenience and risk. When in genuine doubt if something is a risk ask a qualified Orthodox ordained Rabbi.
p.s. Crossing the street is a risk so I advise you not to do so and Im sure you would never drive a car as that is risky, as well as flying in a plane, or even eating non pureed food, you might choke…
As you so wisely said, “If there is the slightest risk we even defer the most stringent positive commandments”
July 26, 2011 at 2:27 am #789929
Overdressing a boy who has recently been sick due to heat is clearly an unacceptable risk.
July 26, 2011 at 2:38 am #789930
Mike, it is not the custom of even the religous jews in my vicinity to wear a kippah outside of the synagogue.
July 26, 2011 at 3:15 am #789931
it is not the custom of even the religous jews in my vicinity to wear a kippah outside of the synagogue.
Perhaps your community believes that the halachos of the Shulchan Aruch are stringencies. Such as the halacha in Orach Chaim 2:6 not to walk four amos (6-8 feet) without any sort of head covering.
Personally, I define “religious Jews” as those who proscribe to the halacha. But perhaps that definition is a stringent definition.
July 26, 2011 at 1:08 pm #789932
Perhaps your community believes that the halachos of the Shulchan Aruch are stringencies. Such as the halacha in Orach Chaim 2:6 not to walk four amos (6-8 feet) without any sort of head covering.
They may not hold like the SA. It is common among Sephardim to only wear a head covering during tefilah & when making a Bracha. Please do not be Motzi La’az on a Kehilah that has done so for thousands of years, well before the SA was written.
July 26, 2011 at 1:55 pm #789933
gavra: Don’t the Sefardim pasken by SA even more so than the Ashkenazim who often go with the Rema? So why would the Ashkenazim go with the SA on headcovering while the Sefardim don’t?
July 26, 2011 at 3:21 pm #789934
I believe frum Yeki’s in Germany did not wear head coverings either.
I am fairly certain in many European countries people do not wear kippot for safety reasons.
July 26, 2011 at 3:30 pm #789935
Frum Yekki’s don’t wear yarmulka’s?
In Europe people would wear a yarmulka or head-covering despite any threat.
July 26, 2011 at 3:55 pm #789936
In Western Europe you need ID to get into the Shuls or arrange in advance to daven there.
Most have Jersey Barriers in front of them with security guards (I saw the guard in London)
July 26, 2011 at 4:14 pm #789937
gavra: Don’t the Sefardim pasken by SA even more so than the Ashkenazim who often go with the Rema?
In general, yes. Seemingly though, not in this case. You would have to ask a Sephardi why not, but that is what they have been doing for over 1000 years.
July 26, 2011 at 11:15 pm #789938
“Don’t the Sefardim pasken by SA even more so than the Ashkenazim who often go with the Rema?”
As a general rule, yes; but as this case shows, every rule has its exceptions.
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