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1. AZOI.IS
   Member

   In recent years, being quiet wasnt considered a handicap.

   At the present time, having 12 couples dating now through me, and having just made a Shidduch, I can confidently state that I have my finger on the pulse of Shidduchim.

   It's a hardship to get guys to date quiet girls in the first place, and when they do, the guys reject them most of the time. When comparing notes with other Shadchanim, they agree. Lively guys most often want lively girls and quiet guys want lively girls most of the time as well. Girls get a reputation of being either, with few in-betweens. I've found this applies all across the board- learning guys, college guys....

   What I've been experiencing lately, is that the quiet issue is even more problematic than the weight issue. If a guy has "fun" with a slightly overweight girl, he might continue dating her. If a girl is a size zero and quiet, she wont get a second date. Heaven help, if she's a size 8/10 or larger and quiet....

   When the quiet girls are told that they should be more assertive and fun, they're very sensitive and it often makes things worse. They develop a complex.

   Other than Daven, what should a quiet girl do?

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. tomim tihye
   Member

   Guess what? My very quiet sister got married recently at the ripe old age of 22!
   Her husband was davka looking for a quiet girl; he can't stand the "lively" ones- thinks they're "empty".
   Point is, maybe those looking for quieter girls are just not coming to you.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. jphone
   Member

   What do quiet guys do? Why is this a problem only for girls?

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. jphone
   Member

   Why is this a problem? What do girls who like moiuntain climbing do? Guys who like curling? People who like Bon Jovi?

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. AZOI.IS
   Member

   jphone, everyone knows the guys have many more options than the girls. Quiet guys have plenty of opportunities to date both quiet and lively girls. The quiet girls generally dont get "yesses" from the guys, and when they do, they get rejected, because the guys aren't having "fun" on the dates.

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. volvie
   Joseph

   Give it another 15 minutes until AZ checks the CR, and he'll explain why this is all a result of the age gap, and once you fix the age gap all other problems will resolve themselves. ;-)

   Actually, quiet girls are the most temimusdik, and tend to marry easily. The older single girls hardly seem to be the quiet types!

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. AZOI.IS
   Member

   volvie, I have loads and loads of older quiet single girls who arent getting dates.

   Laugh all you want, if the guys didnt have as many options (theyre free to date girls of all ages, including those much younger), they might be forced to consider a quieter girl. So AZ, would not be totally off if he says that.

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. volvie
   Joseph

   We know AZ will say that. But nevertheless, as I stated, the older unmarried girls are comparatively generally NOT the quiet types. The quiet types get married as easily as, or easier than, any girl.

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. nachas
   Member

   My daughter is in the shidduch parsha and is young and because she is quiet most of the boys redd to her said no because they found out she is quiet.There is nothing wrong with her, she is thin, pretty, nice to talk to, she has a job and is in school. Because the boys have a long list they dont want to even take the time for one date to see what she is all about.
   I am not saying that it only the girls with this problem, I know boys that are quite that have a hard time with dates but because there are more girls dating (so it seems) the boys would get a date easier.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. AZ
    Member

    Azois, Volvie, Nachas:

    correct

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Bodek
    Member

    what happened to the theory that the best conversationalist is a good listener?

    don't tell me it's just a theory or a definition for the dictionary alone....

    Try it out for yourself, and you'll see it really works!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. tzippi
    Member

    Nachas, you say people found out she's quiet. Please let your references know (and this is a PSA to anyone who may be called for a reference to anyone) NOT to call her quiet. Maybe we can brainstorm to come up with good adjectives that won't nix a shidduch.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. itiswhatitis
    Member

    Speaking about myself, I'm what they call an 'old single' and have earned the name as a quiet girl! I've gotten loads of names turned down, why? Simply because they won't give me an extra chance to open up when they can accomplish it much quicker with someone a little more talkative.
    The only difference between me and them is the time frame of opening up, it may take longer with me than a louder girl....
    Is it really true those that are louder open up quicker and are more truthful? I have my strong doubts!
    Shidduchim are in the hands of the one above, that's what it all boils down to!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. dunno
    Better Late than Never!

    send the quiet girls my way - i know several boys looking specifically for that. what ever happened to bayshanim, rachmanim, and gomlei chasadim? is the first one c"v outdated??

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. itiswhatitis
    Member

    dunno; we lose site of our goals unfortunately!

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. jphone
    Member

    "Is she quiet" is such a loaded question. I once answered "no" (it was asked about a 35 year old gentleman) to this question and the follow up was "why does he have to be such a "tumler" (the verb for for someone causing a tumult, I guess). I guess if your not quiet, you must always be making a racket :)

    I think people ask questions to ensure they don't date someone rather than the opposite.

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. AZOI.IS
    Member

    dunno, if only I could. They're waiting.

    Posted 1 year ago #

18. SJSinNYC
    always pleasant

    How about introspective?

    I'm of the opinion that singles need to make their own decisions. So they don't want to date quiet girls? Well, that's their perogative.

    Posted 1 year ago #

19. oomis1105
    Member

    There is quiet and there is can't-have-a-normal-conversation with someone. When someone asks if someone is quiet, I would tend to think they were trying to ascertain if the person has a personality. I wouldn't want my girls redt to "quiet" boys (they have been, and it was like pulling teeth to get the boys to talk), but I would not want them redt to loudmouths, either. The idea is for there to be a balance and a clear and pleasant.

    Quiet does not necessarily mean introspective, nor does it mean deep and thoughtful. A person can be quiet because he or she simply has never learned how to interact with people. They could be overly shy. The kind of quiet that comes from being introspective, shows the personality in other ways, through strength of character,and also through intelligent conversation. But again, that is NOT what people are usually asking when they ask that question.

    Posted 1 year ago #

20. RN2B
    Member

    sometimes you need to give the girl two or three dates to open up and see that she really isn't quiet at all...some girls are just shy when they first meet someone new

    Posted 1 year ago #

21. fan of pd
    Member

    i am not a quiet girl by any stretch( im not loud either...actually it really depends who you ask---some people say i am loud-but in a good way) but i am not so loud when i am with only 1 person, when im with like 3 or 4 friends i have real personality----i also tend to get quiet when i am sitting across from someone in an intense situation---interview, walking into an office to speak with someone or on a date---so on a 1st date i tend to be quiet-unless the boy is quiet and i need to be the one making the conversation----but anyone you may ask will tell you i am not quiet

    Posted 1 year ago #

22. oomis1105
    Member

    RN2B is right, and it works the same with the boys who are shy. the problem is, if they are too quiet, no one wants to give them that second chance.

    Posted 1 year ago #

23. yankdownunder
    Member

    People need to relax and realize that Hashem has our besheret picked out. If a shidduch for a quiet girl does work out,thank Hashem. Never feel pressured to get married because all your friends are. Hashems timing is perfect.

    Posted 1 year ago #

24. AZOI.IS
    Member

    yankdownunder, you remind me of someone I know who had three daughters in their upper twenties about ten years ago. He used to say "Ven es vet Kummen, vet es Kummen" (when it will come, it will come), referring to Shidduchim for his daughters. He was very easygoing. He now has three single daughters approaching forty, r"l.

    There's a limit to how much Hishtadlus one has to do, but at the same time, there's a limit to how laid back one should be. G-d helps those who help themselves (you gotta buy the lottery ticket.... you gotta be in it, to win it).

    Posted 1 year ago #

25. jphone
    Member

    A lot of boys and girls are "quiet" on their first date. Speaking with a member of the opposite gender is not something they are accustomed to. The fact that it is for shidduchim only makes it a tougher situation for a lot of people. Add this to the already problematic fact that a lot of people dont have great social skills to begin with (and it gets worse as email, texting and other electronic forms of communication get more popular) and is it anyones fault that they are "quiet" on a date? What is worse, is if you ask about someone (male or female, doesnt matter) and you are told, "oh, very friendly and outgoing" and then on a date they are as quiet as a mouse, you automatically feel that someone lied to you or misled you in some way and that they are hiding other things as well. It is quite possible that this person when "hanging around", with people he/she knows for 13 years IS quite outgoing and friendly. Put them in a one on one situation with someone they dont know, a member of the opposite gender on a shidduch date, can he/she be expected to act as if they are shmoozing wit htheir friends?

    Posted 1 year ago #

26. amichai
    Member

    what is the meaning of quiet? are the girls so quiet they do not speak on the date? does it mean slightly shy? or just not as loud and giggly as some young ladies on the busses? quietness is not a defect. if it scares off the guys, do not use the word quiet.

    Posted 1 year ago #

27. jphone
    Member

    I'm wondering if the original question really meant "who should the girls who have nobody actively making noise for them at shidduch meetings, with calls to shadchonim, girls who are not social butterflies and dont know a lot of people, supposed to marry".

    Posted 1 year ago #

28. AZOI.IS
    Member

    amichai, it's not the use of the word thats the problem, its the behavior on dates.

    jphone, not what I meant at all. With the most aggressive mothers. fathers, connections, girls who are reputed not to be the giggly, cutesy, cheery, cracking jokes type, arent selling at the moment even to quiet guys. Guys are looking to be ROFL starting on the first date and beyond. The Aidel, quiet type just isnt desired by guys, other than possibly the budding Roshei Yeshiva types.

    Posted 1 year ago #

29. jphone
    Member

    "Guys are looking to be ROFL starting on the first date and beyond. The Aidel, quiet type just isnt desired by guys, other than possibly the budding Roshei Yeshiva types."

    I find this statement quite puzzling. I wont debate its merits. I will instead ask you on what is this based? Have you polled those who are dating about their dating preferences? Shadchanim? Have you polled girls and found that "too quiet" is the oft stated reason why a shidduch is turned down?

    Posted 1 year ago #

30. AZOI.IS
    Member

    jphone, I've ben busy redding Shidduchim for over 20 years, and the reasons for rejection are different now than they used to be. I couldnt imagine that this only holds true for the couples I set up, so I have compared notes with other Shadchanim. It's a recent change in tastes/preferences/priorities. The weight/money factor isnt the only issue anymore. They're almost taking a back seat to the quiet factor.

    Posted 1 year ago #

31. jphone
    Member

    I wont debate what you claim is your experience and the experiences of other people, as told to you. I find it to be a rather strange development, if in fact it is true.

    Posted 1 year ago #

32. striving
    Member

    lol jphone you crack me up. I totally hear what you're saying! ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago #

33. youdontknowme
    Member

    I have a hard time believing that boys would turn down a girl, before a date, b/c she's quiet. I'm guessing that's their mothers doing. If the girl is quiet on the date, that's a different story. Most people would probably describe me as a quiet guy (I'm really not, just a bit reserved) but when I go on a date, I force myself to be outgoing. It's not easy but if you're not going to do that, can you really blame someone for not wanting to go out with you?

    Posted 1 year ago #

34. AZOI.IS
    Member

    striving, Welcome to the club! You're not the only one who likes those who crack them up! :)

    Posted 1 year ago #

35. itiswhatitis
    Member

    youdontknowme: maybe it works hand in hand, the mother 'finds out' she's quiet informs the boy so by the time they get out on their date he's completely convinced she's quiet and it's not for him. As appose to giving the girl just a little more time for her to be more open!

    Posted 1 year ago #

36. striving
    Member

    AZOI.IS - touche!

    Posted 1 year ago #

37. youdontknowme
    Member

    itiswhatitis: I don't know, personally if I knew beforehand that the girl was quiet, I would be prepared to try to get her to open up. I have a hard time believing that if the girl is pretty and thin, guys would not give her time to get comfortable.

    Posted 1 year ago #

38. jphone
    Member

    So, when did yeshiva bachurim switch their preference to "not quiet" girls? What is a "not quiet" girl? How is she different than her quiet friends who guys suddenly dont want?

    Posted 1 year ago #

39. itiswhatitis
    Member

    youdontknowme: I wish that would be reality, but it's unfortunate that it doesn't work that way! The girl gets rejected much quicker than being given time to open up.

    Posted 1 year ago #

40. volvie
    Joseph

    "I have a hard time believing that if the girl is pretty and thin, guys would not give her time to get comfortable."

    I cannot believe I read those words on a Jewish website. Pretty and thin!? Since when is that THE factor that makes or breaks a potential shidduch!?

    Posted 1 year ago #

41. dunno
    Better Late than Never!

    oh, come on. let's not turn this thread into another "boys shouldn't only focus on looks" thread. I think we already discussed and came to the conclusion that being attracted to one's spouse is important. it's up to the boy himself to decide if it will make or break the shidduch

    Posted 1 year ago #

42. youdontknowme
    Member

    "I cannot believe I read those words on a Jewish website. Pretty and thin!? Since when is that THE factor that makes or breaks a potential shidduch!?"

    First of all, you should read the other comments before jumping to conclusions like that. Specifically one comment said about a quiet girl "There is nothing wrong with her, she is thin, pretty, nice to talk to, she has a job and is in school.".

    All I was saying is that I don't believe that guys are turning down pretty, thin girls b/c they're quiet. Since when is noise level "THE factor that makes or breaks a potential shidduch"? I was not saying that looks should be the most important thing to them, but yes, attraction is important.

    Posted 1 year ago #

43. jphone
    Member

    Azo.Is. "They're almost taking a back seat to the quiet factor."

    Can you elaborate on this new factor? What is it? What trait(s) must one exhibit to fall into this category we call "quiet" that people seem not to want. You have 20 years experience in shidduchim, you say you have been told nope, too quiet more and more in recent times. Can I assume you followed that up with, "quiet, does that mean you had to ask her to speak up many times"? No, thats not what it means? then what does it mean?

    Posted 1 year ago #

44. AZOI.IS
    Member

    jphone, quiet means different things to different people, but still in the same personality category.

    Laid back, reserved, shyish, as opposed to spunky, bubbly, humorous....... Thats the best I can do for an explanation. Take anyone you know and they'll usually have stronger leanings towards one of the two groups, with the latter group becoming increasingly more desirable, as a potential spouse, as time goes on, in my opinion.

    I feel a definite shift from years ago, when the former category was the more desirable for a girl.

    Feel free to disagree.

    Posted 1 year ago #

45. Bodek
    Member

    I personally know many, many quiet girls that are married quite happily. When looking around at the girls still waiting in my age group -I can honestly say that we are defintely not a group of shy and quiet kids - QUITE THE OPPOSITE (pun intended) we are a great bunch of talented and successful girls to whom Hashem has not yet bestowed the Beracha of marriage.

    However, one thing I would recommed - if you are a quiet kid - or even not so quiet and you see the shadchanim are not calling - you gotta take the ball into your court - and start calling and meeting shadchanim - get the word out that you wanna get married! Get out of the house - go to every wedding ur invited to - and parties whatever - you gotta be out there and be seen - so people know you are still around and looking!

    Posted 1 year ago #

46. oomis1105
    Member

    Bodek is absolutely right. I wish you much hatzlacha in finding your bashert and being married b'korov, to the right person.

    Posted 1 year ago #

47. Bodek
    Member

    Oomis,Thank you for your warm wishes!

    Posted 1 year ago #

48. oomis1105
    Member

    You're welcome, now let's hope those wishes turn to a reality for you and all the people in need of their zivug.

    Posted 1 year ago #

49. Bodek
    Member

    Amen!

    Posted 1 year ago #

50. HIE
    pops/son/little bro joint acct

    When someone I know was dating the boy wanted spunky flatbush type, whAt does that mean

    Posted 1 year ago #

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