October 9, 2017 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1379704
smokers do not smoke on shabbos because they realize it is assur.
so why cant they stop during to week if it was assure dby david lichtenstien on headlined
he qouted rav dovid finestien.October 9, 2017 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1379717
It is difficult to stop on Shabbos, but frum smokers put in the effort because they keep Shabbos.October 9, 2017 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1379722
marbehshalom: In the archives of the CR you will see plenty of posts on the smoking issue. Mark Twain’s famous line was “Quitting smoking is easy. I’ve done it 100 times myself”. Those of us who are non-smokers cannot understand the addiction.October 9, 2017 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1379726
Smoking is not a habit, but an addiction. It takes a serious commitment and medical and psychological help/support to beat the addiction over a long period of timeOctober 9, 2017 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1379740
As an addiction, it bears many similarities to others. But there are many differences, too. Here’s a big one.
THERE IS NO REAL PLEASURE FROM SMOKING. In contrast to other addictions, this has no bearing on the brain’s pleasure center. But the pleasure that smokers report must be explained. here it is.
Once dependent (it takes about 4 cigarettes to be hooked – as per the research of the tobacco companies), one begins experiencing withdrawal symptoms when the body craves the next cigarette. The range for this to occur is about 18-23 minutes after the last one. Most people manage to delay the next cigarette for a while, but it eventually becomes easier to undergo whatever bother there is to smoke than to tolerate the discomfort. Well, the removal of the discomfort is experienced as if it were pleasure. So it is pleasure by association.
The addiction to smoking is primarily a physical dependence on nicotine. Yes, there are “oral” habits, and these can be satisfied by chewing on a pencil, toothpick, gum, etc. But on the whole, this is the least significant part of the smoking habit/addiction.
For those who smoke, be aware that the issurim involved in terms of incurring health risks are as serious as chilul Shabbos. The poskim have spoken about this. No sooner than one would brazenly be mechalel Shabbos, or eat chazzer, should one light up a cigarette. This is straight from the poskim. I have commented in other threads on the subject with detailed lists of the poskim. I find it hypocritical for someone to be machmir on anything and still smoke.
Since we are during Sukkos, it is necessary to add an additional note. The heter that is used to smoke on Yomtov is that it is similar to eating, and is considered דבר השוה לכל נפש. In America, it does not qualify, as smoking is still a rather small percentage of the population (considering the majority needed to qualify). In Eretz Yisroel, the poskim are still debating the issue, which has become more relevant as fewer people are smoking.October 9, 2017 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1379745
The poskim have spoken about this. No sooner than one would brazenly be mechalel Shabbos, or eat chazzer, should one light up a cigarette. This is straight from the poskim.
… The heter that is used to smoke on Yomtov … In Eretz Yisroel, the poskim are still debating the issue
If “the poskim” unequivocally asser smoking at any time, why would “the poskim” debate whether it’s muttar on Yom Tov?October 9, 2017 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #1379795
IF THEY ARE able to control theri addiction on shabbos and some a 3 day yomm tov, why cant they control their addiction when r eb dovid finestien says its assur.
thhey dont eat chazer . right? so why cant they keep vinishmartem?
take off from work for 3 days and lay in bed untill addiction wears off.October 9, 2017 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #1379800
People addicted to cigarettes still have a difficult time not smoking in Shabbat.
Someone who successfully abstains from smoking on Shabbat may be compensating by substituting smoking with another addictive behavior, such as using alcohol or food to get by during those hours.
Also, Shabbat doesn’t have the same triggers that come when one may have to earn parnassah, while juggling being a spouse and parent during the week.
Those additional stress triggers, coupled with the reduced social support thay may come with Shabbat, make quitting smoking much greater.
Besides, it’s not like someone who doesn’t smoke on Shabbat quit for good. Haven’t you seen anyone go straight for a cigarette after Havdalah?
You’re asking the person to give up smoking, not postpone it.
Quitting may require one to change one’s daily routine and environment —no easy task.October 9, 2017 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1379811
They give an inch and you take a mile?October 9, 2017 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1379813
If food addicts who are accustomed to eating food every day can stop for Yom Kippur, why can’t they go without food constantly?October 10, 2017 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1379850
Do you think up in heaven one craves a stake or anything of the sort ? Shabbos is Mayan olam habba,the fact that a smoker doesn’t smoke on shabbos is not like quitting for a day it’s just that neshama yesara fulfilling that craving and very rarely does one crave for that cigarette on shabbosOctober 10, 2017 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1379853
why do some people talk loshon hora? They do know its assur (lechal hadaiyos) and they do go spurts of time without talking so why not just never?
smoking very difficult to quit, very.October 10, 2017 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1379854
The Yetzer Harah is smart. He says, “So don’t smoke on Shabbos, only the rest of the week!” You’re right – really nobody should smoke at all. When you abstain on Shabbos, it makes you feel good about it, and you don’t think about the other days. That’s the Yetzer Harah’s goal.October 10, 2017 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1379856
You wrote: “If food addicts who are accustomed to eating food every day can stop for Yom Kippur, why can’t they go without food constantly?”
Aside from the sarcasm in this statement, you do allude to some points that deserve to be articulated. Food is a necessity. Starvation is eventually fatal. There is absolutely no need for smoking. The human body never, ever needs tobacco, and can survive quite long without introducing this life shortening element.
Food addicts are NOT addicted to food. They are dependent, however, on eating patterns that are unhealthy and carry various risks. Anorexia and bulimia are two commonly recognized eating disorders, the former abstains from eating while the latter indulges in bingeing. Overeating may be an eating disorder, but it might not be more than a bad habit that can be unlearned. Eating has the goal of providing nutrition, and Hashem gave us the experience of hunger to drive us to eat. If we eat because we are nervous or upset, we have taken eating outside of the G-d given purpose. We are supposed to enjoy food. Indulging without proper limits is problematic. The various eating patterns that have negative consequences comprise the “food addiction” label we use, which is an inaccurate label. I am glad you brought up your comment to help clarify this.October 10, 2017 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1379857
marbehsholom: I don’t know any smoker who doesn’t smoke during a “3 day yom tov”. They refrain on Shabbos only. Go to any yeshiva gedola and you will find the bochurim/yungerleit smoking. Is it right or correct? I personally think not. However, once someone is addicted, quitting “cold turkey” is difficult.
Eating ptcha, kishke, and other fatty maacholim are also problematic based on current medical knowledge and one might be oiver on “Venishmartem”. Does it fall under the aveirah category like “eating chazzer”? I am not so sure.October 10, 2017 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1379846
How many smokers actually acknowledge that it is assur?
You quote David Lichtenstein, talking on a radio show designed to be controversial, liberal and provocative. That isn’t going to convince anyone at the best of time – especially smokers, who have negius that it should be muttar.
Look at it from the point of view of a smoker.
– Stage 1: There is the famous teshuva in Igros Moshe where R’ Moshe is basically mattir for those who are not בעלי נפש*. There is a large amount of discussion in earlier Poskim about smoking on Yim Tov, but very clear documented proof that at one point, it was Muttar. Of course there are discussions as to whether or not the hetter still applies; various testimonies which are disputed – nothing concrete.
– Stage 2: Everybody smokes. Walk around Eretz Yisroel. Stand outside any Beis Hamedrash. Dozens of Gedoilim – Yerei Shamayim and Talmidei Chachamim of immense proportions – smoke or smoked themselves.
– Take this a stage further. Not only do such a large proportion of frum, heimishe Yidden smoke, but very few accepted Gedoilim have ever come out publicly against smoking. Imagine if Klal Yisroel were eating certified pork on the streets – wouldn’t you expect pashkevilin, Smoking Asifas, public speeches – some sort of awareness campaign? When something is so blatantly widespread, you expect a strong reaction if it would be assur . But what do we see? Snippets of private conversations busybodies have with gedoilim, where they agree that it is assur to start smoking.
– Even if the facts are there, on some level, most smokers don’t believe it is truly dangerous. Just like most of us drink Coke, and eat fatty foods – although we are aware that these things are nutritional disaster – it’s because we don’t actually believe it will cause any lasting damage. Consider to yourself the number of smokers you personally know, and how many people you know who have ever died from smoking. On some subconcious level, we consider it like driving a car; accidents happen, and it is dangerous – but hey, nothing’s going to happen when you get into a car. Nobody has ever walked around the corner because of the health risk in driving.
In summary: An activity which is (1) considered muttar by רוב of Klal Yisroel – specifically something that (2) was once unanimously accepted – (3) which is still practiced by רבים וטובים, is not going to be fought with ambiguity.October 10, 2017 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #1380013
I located a comment I wrote in an earlier post from several years ago. Copy and paste is much quicker.
Here is the main reference to the issur psakim against smoking. The sefer is called “Chaim Lelo Ishun” written by Rav Yechezkel Aschayk, published in Eretz Yisroel several years ago (publication date is missing). The letters of haskamah are open and specific. The haskamos are from: Rav Shteinman, Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro, Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner, Rav Nissin Karelitz, Rav Yerachmiel Gershon Edelstein, Rav Boruch Dov Povarsky, Rav Matisyahu Salomon, Rav Shimon Bedny, and Rav Yitzchok Zilbershtein. The other names listed in my previous are quoted in the text of the sefer. Most include the exact language. There is also a letter (dated Menachem Av 5764) that concerns the issur to begin the smoking addiction signed by Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro, Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz, Rav Aharon Lein Shteinman, Rav Shmuel Auerbach, and Rav Nissim Karelitz. Rav Elyashiv added his signature to that letter. It is true that this letter addresses the issur to begin smoking, but it also states clearly that smokers must wean themselves off of it, and should never smoke in public places where it can bother others. However, in contrast to an earlier comment, this letter does NOT state that it is muttar to continue smoking because it is a tzorech. I request a reference to such a statement from Rav Elyashiv.
I also call attention to an earlier sefer “Pe’er tachas Efer” that addressed the issur against smoking.
There is also a lengthy psak about the issur against smoking issued by the RCA. This psak discusses all earlier teshuvos from poskim on the subject, including the parameters of “Shomer psoyim Hashem” which was mentioned in one psak from Rav Moshe Feinstein. This RCA psak is available online.
yekke2: There is a serious problem with your logic. Basically, the smoker needs to recognize a psak halacha that conflicts with his personal desire, and their negius is that it should be muttar. There is absolutely no excuse to make conclusions that account for negius. That is called מגלה פנים בתורה שלא כהלכה. That is why a dayan who accepted a bribe is guilty even if he paskens in favor of the other side. You cannot create a halacha, then look for excuses to justify it.
Reb Moshe’s famous tshuvah is misrepresented so easily and so often. He NEVER said smoking is muttar. He only stated that if someone can’t stop, it is not an issur of לפני עוור to give him a light if requested. That is also dated, and obsolete (according to Reb Dovid), as the information of health risks at that time (very early ’60’s) was much more limited than what we presently know. Now, today’s smokers probably began smoking sometime after the psak from, Reb Moshe, when he openly stated that no one should start (not just בעלי נפש).
Lastly, the fatty foods and coke you mentioned are only problematic if ingested to excess. Otherwise, our bodies are well equipped to handle these things. And there are issues with anything to excess. Every single cigarette shortens life, and inflicts medical damage to the body. That is documented in the scientific literature. That is why poskim have specifically dealt with the “single cigarette” issue, and proclaimed the issur as extending to that, not just the regular smoker. Refer to the sefer חיים ללא עישון referenced above. In fact, find the sefer and study it. After that, the naysayers about smoking will no longer appear to be addicted to ambiguity.October 10, 2017 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #1380091
When someone smokes the nicotine is released straight into the blood stream reaching the brain within 10 seconds which causes the brain to release adrenaline causing a buzz of pleasure and energy. Smoking once in a while wont do anything but once the brain gets used to having the nicotine it is extremely hard to stop. I have seen my friend physically sick from withdrawal by the end of shabbos.October 11, 2017 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1380148
So this gentile young woman who works as a maid for a Jewish family goes home for X-mas, and her family asks her about working for Jews. She says it’s fine but she does not understand their holidays. On Sukkos, they smoke in the house but eat in a hut in the back yard. On Shabbos, they eat in the dining room but smoke in the bathroom. And on Yom Kippur, they smoke in the bathroom and eat in the bathroom.October 11, 2017 5:59 am at 5:59 am #1380156
SUPPOSE THE rabbonim would discover that the tobacco used in cigareettes are froma n indian temple and it is avoda zara.
would people still smoke?
assuming all rabonim agree that its assurOctober 11, 2017 11:15 am at 11:15 am #1380237
Seems pretty easy too get all worked up about an issue you don’t have, and be all judgemental about it.October 11, 2017 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1380266
SUPPOSE THE rabbonim would discover that the tobacco used in cigareettes are froma n indian temple and it is avoda zara.
Well, that’s easy. How many women do you know who have given up their Sheitels after the recent uproar? It’s easier to find a Posek who hasn’t gone into the sugya or who is meikal.October 11, 2017 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #1380272
TLIK, all food addicts are addicted to food. It is entirely possible that they do not exist. However, in my post I was referring to food addicts.October 15, 2017 12:32 am at 12:32 am #1380530
Sorry to disappoint you. Food addicts are not addicted to food. Well, if you insist, every form of life is “addicted” to food. None can tolerate continued existence without it, and all will find a source somehow to get it. But, as explained quite clearly in my comment above, that is not addiction. There are dependencies we all have. Can you walk around outside barefoot? Not that other places and cultures do not, but we are quite dependent on footwear. Addiction? No. Sorry, but the only true form of a food addict would be someone that compulsively ingests a particular food that results in negative consequences.October 15, 2017 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1380554
If they are not addicted to food, they are not food addicts. A food addict is a person who is addicted to food. You are arguing that food addicts do not exist.
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