Your Dream-Ticket for 2012

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  • #593442

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Obama looks weaker than ever. He first lost the center by passing spending bills and mega-legislation and then lost his base by negotiating with terrorists and then making deals with the enemy who took America hostage (aka Republicans). Eyes are on 2012 and I’d like to hear from you who you’d like to see on the ticket (Democrat-Independent-Republican) in 2012. Who would you like to see as our next president and vice president?

    Examples:

    Democrat: Clinton-Rendell; Feingold-Kaine

    Independent: Bloomberg-Crist;

    Republican: Huckabee-Christie; Palin-McDonell; Romney-Pawlenty

    Use your imagination, I’ll chime in with my pick later.

  • #903288

    Limbaugh-Romney.

    Slightly more realistically, Romney-Christie.

  • #903289

    anon for this
    Participant

    I’ve heard some advocate for Palin-Bachmann. That would be interesting.

  • #903290

    anon: Yuck. That would be the worst of the worst.

  • #903291

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Lets talk about something else.

    Would any of you vote for Palin in the primary? I wouldn’t.

  • #903292

    A23
    Participant

    Obama-Biden. No need to shake things up.

  • #903293

    jhcvivgwry
    Member

    CHRISTIE!!!

  • #903294

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Trying my best, charliehall would love that first combination along with anonforthis‘s selection.

    As to a Romney-Christie ticket. It sounds good. They are both moderates that will appeal to the center while Christie has the Tea Party activists on board. Romney has a long resume and with the economy being the prime issue in 2012, a businessman in his stature has nothing to lose. However, I doubt Christie can sit backstage; he needs to sit at the driver’s seat. Additionally, both are northeastern politicians and they would rather want to balance the ticket. Romney also has the issue of Romneycare he’d have to defend.

    A23, many Republicans wish they stay on the ticket as is. It would probably be their best chance to take the White House back.

  • #903295

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Joseph Farah’s (WND) dream ticket is similar to that of anonforthis’s pick: Demint-Bachman.

    Talking about Limbaugh on a ticket, Palin didn’t rule out running with Glenn Beck.

    I believe that most Democrats wish Obama drops Biden and takes Hillary as his running mate. The Democrats don’t want a primary; it’s a definite loss. A Clinton win would anger much of the Democratic base, most notably the minorities. If Obama squeezes a victory, he will head into the general election quite damaged. This would probably also be the first time an incumbent president would be challenged by his base and not by the extremists in his base.

  • #903296

    anon for this
    Participant

    Just to clarify: I don’t think Palin-Bachmann would be a suitable ticket to run the country. But I do think it would be entertaining to watch them run.

  • #903297

    charliehall
    Member

    Obama-Biden will easily win.

    Prof. Alan Lichtman of American University has a method of predicting the popular vote winner in Presidential elections. It has a 100% success record in every election from 1860 to 2008. Only the Harlem Globetrotters and the University of Connecticut women’s basketball team have similar streaks going right now.

    The method identifies 13 keys. If six favor the party out of power, it wins. However, only four favor the Republicans right now and it isn’t clear how two of them are going to change, especially since the tax deal will have the effect of stimulating the economy.

  • #903298

    tzippi
    Member

    Palin Bachman Overdrive would be an excellent name for a rock band.

  • #903299

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Charlie, who would you like to see on the Republican ticket?

  • #903300

    ronrsr
    Member

    Dukakis/H. Clinton

  • #903301

    Ender
    Member

    Marco Rubio and Mike Pence.

    I have a follow up question, who would a Bloomberg run as an Independant hurt more, the Dems or Reps?

  • #903302

    charliehall
    Member

    Dave Hirsch,

    As I’m not a Republican, I don’t think I should be telling Republicans what they should be doing for their nomination.

    Ender,

    A serious third party candidacy would clearly hurt the Democrats more. It is actually one of the Lichtman keys. The Republicans would need one additional and they would win.

  • #903303

    charliehall
    Member

    Dave Hirsch,

    I guess I should add that I hope that the Republicans nominate the people they truly think will be the best President and Vice President. (And remember that the qualification for Vice President is that you can be a good President.)

  • #903304

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    ronrsr, are you serious? Why would America elect an 80 year old to be president? And why would the Democrats nominate a looser as their candidate? It’s as if someone would suggest McCain on the GOP ticket!

    Additionally, why would Hillary agree to be VP? If she has presidential aspirations she would seek the nomination (and would very likely win it), why would she be a back-seater with no political future (except if he dies in office)?

    Ender, that’s actually an interesting choice. Marco Rubio, the upcoming star of the Republican Party, has the advantage of carrying Florida as well as getting much Hispanic support. He’s articulate, well-spoken and has a passionate story. A tough and effective speaker in the Florida House, Rubio would have more experience in 2012 than Obama had when he was elected president. Mike Pence, also a Tea-Party favorite, is one of the leaders in the Republican Congress and has been mentioned as a possible presidential contender. Pence also has the advantage of carrying Ohio, another important swing-state, given that his district borders the state.

    The question here is: would the Americans want to do this celebrity thing over again? Would they be ready to elect another inexperienced leader and have a ticket with no executive experience? Additionally, although Rubio would probably be able to win the Republican nomination, does he have a good message and achieves high-marks in the Senate, he would probably opt for a more traditional candidate. Obama will likely try to paint him as a Tea-Party extremist and Pence as the veep would probably give Obama more fuel to his claims. I also think that Rubio, a freshman, would try to pick someone with more name-recognition than a Representative (as Obama did with Biden). Otherwise, I’m all for it. I just think I’d like my pick (to be disclosed soon) somewhat better.

    As to your follow-up question: It really depends who the candidates are. If the independent is center-right, he’ll ruin it for the Republicans, and if he’s center-left, he will take more Democratic votes. If the Republican is a moderate and the Democrat is a liberal, the Democrat will most probably lose votes to the independent and vice-versa. I believe that in 2012 (with Obama on the Democratic ticket) and the election about the economy and anti-Obama, the Democrats will benefit from an independent (especially one like Bloomberg or Crist).

  • #903305

    coffee addict
    Participant

    Prof. Alan Lichtman of American University has a method of predicting the popular vote winner in Presidential elections. It has a 100% success record in every election from 1860 to 2008. Only the Harlem Globetrotters and the University of Connecticut women’s basketball team have similar streaks going right now.

    The method identifies 13 keys. If six favor the party out of power, it wins. However, only four favor the Republicans right now and it isn’t clear how two of them are going to change, especially since the tax deal will have the effect of stimulating the economy

    you realize this is as it stands.

    A lot can happen in two years so wake up and smell the coffee (actually stay asleep thinking Obama will win, gives you less motivation to vote)

  • #903306

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Is this all you’ve got? I myself have many dream-tickets I’d like to see. I’m about to disclose the one I’d really like to see, but I’d really like to see even one other member mentioning my candidate before.

  • #903307

    ronrsr
    Member

    Michael Bloomberg / Sandy Koufax.

  • #903308

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    ronsr, you’re getting better by the minute. Why would America elect a Jew-boy from Boro Park just because he refused to pitch on Yom Kippur? Are you a comedian?

  • #903309

    Very worthy candidates:

    Jeb Bush

    Bobby Jindal

    John Bolton

    David Petraeus

    Rick Perry

  • #903310

    ronrsr
    Member

    dear Dave Hirsch, I can dream, can’t I.

    In the documentary film about that other great Jewish ballshpieler,, Hank Greenberg (who also did not play on Yom Kippur), Alan Dershowitz states that when he was a young boy (and baseball fan) in the late 1930s, he believed that Hank Greenberg would be the first Jewish president. Greenberg was handsome, well-spoken, determined, famous, free from scandal, and an all-around great guy. When Hitler, Goebbels and Father Coughlin were ranting about the athletic inferiority of Jews, here was a Jewish man you could reasonably argue was the best baseball player of his time.

    Well, Hank Greenberg is no longer alive, but Sandy Koufax is, and he is handsome, well-spoken, determined, and an all-around great guy. You could make an argument that he pitched better than anyone else ever pitched, and instilled pride in another generation of Jewish boys, specifically mine.

    Maybe I should have nominated Koufax/Bloomberg.

    Contrary to what my mother told me, Koufax did not refuse to pitch on Yom Kippur. He was spared that since Don Drysdale would have normally pitched in the rotation that day. This doesn’t lessen my admiration for Koufax.

    His accomplishments on the field were not limited to not pitching on YK.

    “I can see how he (Sandy Koufax) won twenty-five games. What I don’t understand is how he lost five.” – Yogi Berra on Sandy Koufax’s 1963 record, after he faced Koufax in the World Series.

  • #903311

    ronrsr
    Member

    I also thought Elliot Spitzer would be the first Jewish president. He was the best attorney-general that New York had seen in many years. He really was cleaning up Wall Street, until he made too many enemies who exploited his weakness to cause a scandal.

  • #903312

    Spitzer was never any good. His Wall Street forays were to make a name for himself, at anyone’s expense. His biggest case on Wall Street was thrown out of court.

  • #903313

    ronrsr
    Member

    he was far more successful at recovering money for duped investors and putting the perpetrators behind bars than any other attorney-general in another state, such as mine. Not even close.

  • #903314

    ronrsr
    Member

    On the downside, Spitzer didn’t pitch nearly as well as Koufax.

  • #903315

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Trying my best, some of them would indeed make good presidents, but let’s review their issues one-by-one:

    Jeb Bush

    Had his last name been Smith, he’d probably be the front-runner for the GOP nomination and most probably our next president. Jeb, a former governor from Florida, a vital swing-state, is competent, intelligent and few in the nation understand politics as he does. He attracts the Tea Partyers as well as the moderates and can unify them to rally behind him. A former businessman , Jeb would bring business experience as well as executive experience to the Oval Office. The years he worked for his father as well as running his own campaigns, gave him the political experience needed to run a good and disciplined campaign (something an Obama opponent should have). This is in addition to managing Ileana Ros-Lehtinen’s campaign and serving as chairman of the Republican Party of Dade County. Bush’s education policies and legislation received high-marks throughout the nation (education might become an issue in the decade to come) and he has foreign policy credentials as well. Charismatic and an eloquent speaker, Jeb has the advantage of courting the Hispanic vote (because of his Hispanic wife) and is popular among Blacks (although it won’t do much against Obama’s popularity among them – talk about racists!). Jeb is an amazing fundraiser and is a sought-after speaker for policy. He also has high-approval ratings and strong name recognition. In other words: he’s just perfect to be president.

    However, his name is Bush and that’s the problem. Although Obama might overshadow George W. Bush and improve his ratings (as he already did) many will still refrain from voting for “Bush.” Conservatives are still angry at “Bush” (41 & 43) for betraying their principles and although Jeb has more conservative credentials, he will have to make a strong case to overcome their suspicions. Liberals are also angry at “Bush” for ‘stealing the elections’ in 2000 with many liberals claiming Jeb actually orchestrated it. Additionally, people don’t want political dynasties any longer. Many claimed that Hillary lost the nomination because of her “Clinton” surname and Bushes hail from even a more prominent family. Many voters would rather vote for someone with a passionate story (like Obama’s) than someone that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

    Bobby Jindal

    Bobby is another fabulous candidate.

    A Governor with sky-high approval ratings, Bobby would be the youngest president in history, if elected (in 2012). His youth is also more attractive than Obama’s (in 2008) because Bobby has a whole lot of political and executive experience (serving as a Representative before becoming Governor of Louisiana as well as administration positions).

    He would also be the first Indian-American to become president of the US and will most likely attract minorities. He will also attract both conservatives and moderates. Bobby will have a strong say on Healthcare (which will definitely be an issue in 2012) given that he has served as the DHH in Louisiana and did a great job increasing health services while cutting costs of Medicaid and was then nominated to be the assistant Secretary of Health under President Bush. Jindal has also shown leadership capabilities at the Hurricane Gustav and gulf spill disasters.

    Perhaps Jindal’s main liability is his charisma and speech performance. Although he doesn’t lack name recognition, he isn’t very popular around the country and his lackluster appearances won’t help. He needs to perform well at the debates to capture the nomination and it might prove bad for him when debating Obama. Additionally, although Bobby has a business background and was effective in creating a surplus out of a deficit in Medicaid in Louisiana, some will rather have one with more economic experience. But, I agree, he’s definitely one to look at.

    John Bolton

    David Petraeus

    Rick Perry

  • #903316

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    ronsr, don’t get me started on Spitzer. We’re lucky he went down before getting into the Oval Office, he would’ve discredited all of us Jews.

  • #903317

    My dream ticket would be Pat Buchanan/Ron Paul

    In no time flat the country would be headed down a more moral path along with fiscal policy that would put this country back on top.

    I know its in our nature to scream “anti semitism” just because a political candidate looks at us funny, but it’s time for us to realize that America is a malchus shel chesed and if we want it to stay that way we need to let the needs and interests of America to come first before Israel.

    For a long time I’ve believed that U.S. aid should be cut because as long as Israel is taking money from the U.S. they have a say in how Israel runs their country.

    The truth is that the “Yeshiva” world has a lot in common with the viewpoints of Buchanan and Paul. Might be time to realize it and mobilize against our hellenist brethern who are responsible for the downfall of decency in this country.

  • #903318

    Very interesting analysis, Dave Hirsch!

    What’s needed is another Ronald Reagan, but there’s no one on the horizon that comes close to the combo of popularity, personality, conservative credentials and viability. While another campaign with Palin would inspire tons of great videos on youtube by Tina Fey, she’s no more ready for the big show now then she was in 2008. Romney? He’s high in the current polls, but incredibily uninspiring. Christie? That could be a possibilty, stay tuned.

    Dream team for Dems – Obama & Biden because they’re beatable.

  • #903319

    Ron Paul – Heath Shuler

  • #903320

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    A Woman outside bklyn, Thank You!

    We all miss the “Dutch.” We would definitely appreciate his inspiration and heartfelt message in such tough times. He is truly missed and will be missed forever. I agree that it’s not that easy to fing another Gipper and Obama definitely isn’t one. Sarah Palin isn’t Reagan either, she has a lot to learn before she becomes one. However, I’d just like to remind you that in 1978 people around the country also searched for a Reagan. Ronny had just lost the Republican nomination and went into retirement. He was too old to run for the Oval Office and George Bush was perhaps the front-runner. Fortunately, Ronald Reagan jumped into the race, overcame the age issue and got to become the best president in modern history. We can also look back at the Great Society years after the defeat of Barry Goldwater and many Republicans. The Conservatives were devastated. They were declared dead forever. Nixon’s win was largely attributed to the bickering and infighting within the Democratic party. They needed someone that would make it “cool” to be Republican and initiate conservative policies. The retired two-term governor did just that after his political career was deemed over. I believe that just like Barry Goldwater’s conservative movement got us a Reagan, so too will the Tea Party movement generate a Reagan. It might be Marco Rubio or Chris Christie and it could even be someone that’s still under radar – but it will come.

    Chris Christie

    I don’t know why I didn’t give my take on Christie before. To put it frankly: I’m a huge fan of the Governor. The guts that he has to take on those corrupt government worker is remarkable. The courage he has to stop the spending-spree and get government working again is admiring. He understands that the cuts are painful and people feel it, he knows that it places his political capital at stake; yet, he knows that this is right and does it regardless. He also attracts moderates and Tea Partyers in addition to hailing from a blue state. He’s my man. But, I have my reservations.

    First and foremost, and I’ll be quite frank and honest, he gotta lose weight! Now, I’m also overweight, but I’m not running for president. Yes, you heard it – the Americans will elect a black man for President rather than a fat man. You can figure that if Jon Corzine went for that cheap shot – it works. Now, I don’t know if others will make it an issue (and stoop down so low) but people, in an age of TV, will have an issue. The American public opinion (although obese) and the general styles today is to be ultra-skinny – obesity can and will turn off many.

    Additionally, Chris might indeed be the Republican darling right now and his domination on YouTube proves it. However, things will change especially if he enters a primary. The attacks will begin coming in his direction and many will question his conservative credentials. He is a fiscal conservative (which should be the issue in 2012) but I’m sure many of his fans (including Rush Limbaugh etc.) will fail his litmus test on his social views. Don’t forget: He’s a northeasterner and he’s a moderate. Did all of you forget his primary against Steve Lonegan?!

    Chris Christie is famous for his tough-talk and being blunt. That’s what the viral videos on YouTube are all about as he exemplifies the frustration throughout the country. However, in a national race it might not be so much of an asset. In rural America people aren’t used to New Jersey tough-talk. Some people might interpret his style for anger and an angry man can’t get elected (Paladino?!). It might play out well for him but it is a risk.

    We must not forget that in 2012 Christie won’t have much to show the public. Of course people like me, who believe in fiscal conservatism, see his accomplishments but those skeptical will want to see the numbers. New Jersey was in such a bad state when Christie took office so it may take years to see his accomplishments. Christie knows it and that’s why he says he isn’t ready yet. New Jersey still needs alot of work. You can’t buitres Rome overnight and you definitely cannot fix a bankrupt state in four years. Even if everything would already be alright, the changes don’t happen overnight; it takes some time to see the results. This may be something he will have to address in the general.

    I’m quite disappointed that no one mentioned my top-of-the-ticket yet. I know that he lacks name recognition, but so little?!

  • #903321

    If the economy remains the main issue, that plays to Christie’s favor. If it’s back to national security, that will tilt the tables to someone with that experience.

    Loved the point about Jeb needing a name change in order to be considered.

  • #903322

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    A Woman outside bklyn , I don’t see why Chris Christie should have more chances than, say, Mitt Romney (or even Paul Ryan) if the economy is the main issue. If you were referring to Bolton, I believe that anyone and everyone would win Bolton on domestic issues.

    If there are clowns in the room you laugh; if there is an elephant in the room – you shut up!

    Originally, I was planning to ignore suggestions such as Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan. They’re nothing more than laughingstocks and have no chance in winning the nomination. Their ages and philosophies will prevent that. However, I decided that it should be addressed. They are indeed the elephants in the room; nevertheless, I opted to make my position clear.

    I’m a life-long registered Republican (born to Democrats though) and identify myself as conservative (politically). The reason for that is, because (aside from sharing philosophies) the Republican Party is home to the centrists. The Democratic Party includes mant extreme individuals that support radical socialism etc. while the GOP is more mainstream. A radical conservative will rather be part of the Libertarian, Reform or Conservative parties. The fact is that the Democrats nominated someone like George McGovern and the Republicans didn’t (and don’t tell me Barry Goldwater). Now, I know that Charlie Hall and other liberals will dispute my claims – the bi-partisan voting record websites support my claims. “Moderate” Democrats such as Barack Obama are more extreme than “radical” Republicans such as Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman. Take a look at their voting records. I believe that the GOP should stay on the middle path – the same path that Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan trotted down . Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan don’t fit this description and that’s why I don’t support them. Caring for the poor is important as well as the Government; we just have to know its limits and draw the line and not abolish it completely.

    While I agree with them on some issues, I disagree with more. Fiscal policy is important, but with consideration. I’m also in support for a government that enforces morality and ethics. While I believe that the US should reduce its interference in foreign countries and stop sending our taxes abroad, I don’t think isolationism is the way to go. We ought to protect our allies in order to protect ourselves. Israel is our only ally in that region and should be well protected for our own good. I’d also vote for a pro-American president over a pro-Israel president, but I wouldn’t vote for an anti-Israeli president because that means anti-America. However, I do agree that we should refrain from using the term anti-Semite all too often.

    I will talk about Palin in a thread for herself.

  • #903323

    haifagirl
    Member

    Ron Paul and I’ll trust his judgment for VP.

  • #903324

    Midwest2
    Member

    Dream-tickets….

    Back in 1994 the Republicans were ecstatic that they took back Congress. The result? They got blamed for everything. Clinton got a free pass for a second term. Google “Pyrrhic victory.”

    Yep, it’s the economy this time around too, and the same people that were mad at Pres. Obama because he didn’t wave a magic wand and make everybody prosperous again are now going to be mad at the Tea Party and the Republicans because *they* forgot their miraculous powers.

    We will once again have a Democratic administration and a divided Congress. Maybe we all ought to start learning about this weird thing called “bipartisanship” like in “Work for what’s good for the country, not what’s good for your ego.”

  • #903326

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    It seems like Newt Gingrich will be the first official entrant in the 2012 election cycle, so I thought that it would be proper to profile him.

    Newt Gingrich

    Gingrich is an eloquent speaker who can mop the floors with the other candidates at the debates. He is perhaps the only leading contender that will probably beat Obama in the presidential debates. He understands the economy, how to balance the budget (which he did for the first time since 1969!) and national security. The author (or co-author) of close to 30 books is often referred to as the Republican Clinton, given his shrewdness, slyness, and smartness. He is also one that will be able to unite the Republican Party – the establishment (although he would have to mend some fences) and the Tea Party.

    Sometimes seen as a maverick on some issues (immigration and energy), Gingrich has sparred with President Bush and the GOP for the increased spending under their watch. Although he warned that the GOP must broaden its base, he is considered a hard-core conservative. The 67 year old is considered a top contender for the nomination.

    On a side note: Two great candidates, Mike Pence and John Thune, have declined to run for the nomination (look out for the VP slot) while Chris Christie has begun doing things that signals preparation for a run (did he commit suicide yet?!).

  • #903327

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    cleverjewishpun…

    i DO hope you are kidding!!!

    Pat Buchanan is a true anti-Semite bli shum safek.

    How anyone can listen to him speak and not realize that, is truly incredible to me.

    On the other hand, the good side of him getting elected would be that shortly thereafter, – we’d see a HUGE increase in American aliya!

  • #903328

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    On the other hand, the good side of him getting elected would be that shortly thereafter, – we’d see a HUGE increase in American aliya!

    That is a pretty horrible thing to say. You should ask the mods to take that down. And this as well.

    It sounds like you are happy when there is antisemitism because it leads to aliya.

  • #903329

    @AinOhd,

    You kind of proved my point with your comment about how Buchanan feels about Jews.

    Any political candidate that does not bow at the alter of AIPAC or the ADL gets hit with the anti semite label.

    Buchanans opposition to aid to Israel is within his right as an elected representative of the people.

    Personally I would rather have someone in office who is openly hostile rather than a fast talker who says all the right things and then stabs you in the back.

  • #903330

    A23
    Participant

    I’m a little surprised nobody mentioned Cantor.

  • #903331

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Cleverjewishpun,

  • #903332

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Update on Gingrich:

    Oops. Newt Gingrich did not announce. He once again did what he knows best – generating much noise about his presidential ambitions (you might recall that Gingrich ruffled feathers in 2000 and 2008 about a run). Now he simply lost his job at Fox News for the announcement of his website. Nevertheless, he did more this time around to be seen as a viable candidate.

    In Other News:

    Former Louisiana Gov. Buddy Roemer is planning a run. The former Governor and Congressman hasn’t won an election since 1987 and is seen as eccentric of some sort – he has virtually no chance. He was a lifelong Democrat who switched parties in his first term as Governor only to lose re-election.

  • #903333

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Ron Paul can never be president. He is too principled and too grandfatherly (some say milquetoast) to be president.

    I would love a President Ron Paul and a VP John Bolton. RP has the domestic and fiscal issues perfected. Bolton would be in charge of foreign policy and diplomatic affairs.

    Will this ever happen? Maybe when cows fly.

  • #903334

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    rebdoniel,

    Your “dream” ticket is highly unlikely for obvious reasons. Yet, the most obvious reason is: the top and bottom of the prospective ticket clash immensely – Paul is an isolationist while Bolton is a neoconservative. Their joint-ticket would be far more bi-partisan (to the extreme) than, say, a McCain/Lieberman ticket. We must remember that libertarians meet the extreme liberal left in many ways .

  • #903335

    ronrsr
    Member

    Rahm Emanuel / Sandy Koufax

  • #903336

    fabie
    Member

    I’ll run with Wolf!

  • #903337

    tzippi
    Member

    A23, doesn’t he need to ripen a bit?

  • #903338

    charliehall
    Member

    Patrick Buchanan and Ron Paul are really the only two true anti-Semites prominent in American politics today. Yet they are being promoted on a frum site? Clearly some of our commenters here are completely assimilated into the Torah of Ayn Rand.

  • #903339

    charliehall
    Member

    “Koufax did not refuse to pitch on Yom Kippur. He was spared that since Don Drysdale would have normally pitched in the rotation that day. “

    Never did Koufax pitch on Yom Kippur. He sat out important games in both 1961 and 1966, and the Dodgers lost both games.

    Koufax had pitched on October 2, 1965, allowing 4 hits and 1 run as the Dodgers defeated the Milwaukee Braves, 3-1, clinching the National League Pennant. The World Series started October 6, 1965. Back then, pitchers pitched every four days and managers tried to get their best pitcher to pitch the first, fourth, and seventh (if necessary) games of the World Series. But October 6 was 10 Tishrei.

    You may be thinking of 1966. Koufax had been scheduled to pitch September 24, 1966, but that was Yom Kippur; the Dodgers lost 4-0 to the Chicago Cubs and yet another future Hall of Famer, Ferguson Jenkins, still the only Canadian in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Koufax had pitched the last game of the season, the second game of a doubleheader, on Sunday, October 2, 1966, which the Dodgers needed to win to clinch the Pennant. They defeated Philadelphia, 3-1. (The losing pitcher was future Baseball Hall of Famer and US Senator Jim Bunning.) Koufax had also pitched three days earlier, on Thursday September 29, as the Dodgers defeated the St. Louis Cardinals, 2-1. Ordinarily Koufax would not have pitched on two days rest, but when it was win or nothing, you do desperate things. (The Dodgers had lost the two games in between, and Koufax had pitched and won Game 7 of the 1965 World Series on two days rest.) Drysdale had lost the first game of the doubleheader, pitching only 2 innings, so he started Game 1 of the World Series on two days rest, losing 5-2 to Baltimore. Koufax pitched Game 2 of the 1966 World Series on the usual three days rest and the Dodgers lost 6-0 thanks in part to some awful defensive play; the winning pitcher was a not-quite-21-year-old named Jim Palmer who would also end up in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Nobody knew it at the time but it would be the last game Koufax would ever pitch.

  • #903340

    FAD UP
    Member

    defently not palin or bachman i personaly think that a woman cant take this job no matter if her name is clinton or she has a down sindrome h”y i think christie,rubio or scot walker would be great cause we need now some big lion fighters

  • #903341

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    FAD UP,

    With all due respect, I disagree. Margaret Thatcher, a woman, is considered one of the finest leaders of the past century. Of course you can point to Golda Meir to support your theory, but I’ll suggest Jimmy Carter as a rebuttal to that claim.

    As I’ve already pointed out in another thread, Sarah Palin, despite her charisma, connectivity to the voters and correct priorities, is not one that you would want in the White House at this time. We need a serious thinker without rhetoric or a celebrity status to lead this nation is such trying times. We currently have hype in the Oval Office and it didn’t fare us well.

  • #903342

    For the office of 45th President of the United States, 2013-2021:

    1. Michael Dale “Mike” Huckabee

    2. Newton Leroy “Newt” Gingrich

    3. Herman Cain (conservative values and a division of the black vote will hinder Obama)

    For the office of 48th Vice President of the United States, 2013-2021:

    1. John Ellis “Jeb” Bush (the former governor of Florida may draw its 29 voted; his wife is Mexican

    2. Marco Antonio Rubio (as Florida’s junior Senator, he’d attract Florida, and as a Cuban-American, he’d draw the Hispanic vote, which is an enormous bloc)

    3. Gen. David Howell Petraeus (as the symbol of American success in Afghanistan and Iraq, he could be the new “Ike”)

    Note: My preferences for the Presidency are actually

    a) John Ellis “Jeb” Bush

    b) Michael Dale “Mike” Huckabee

    c) Gen. David Howell Petraeus

    However, since both Bush and Petraeus have stated that they do not wish to run for the nation’s highest office, I have had to adjust my list of preferences. Nonetheless, I have included both persons in my list of choices for the Vice Presidency, as it remains a possibility that they will allow themselves to be coaxed into running for the office of President of the Senate.

    As for charliehall‘s original post in this thread, I am indeed worried about Allan J. Lichtman’s Keys to the White House. Then I remind myself that ultimately, HaShem Yisborach is in charge.

  • #903343

    newhere
    Member

    Why has nobody mentioned Mitch Daniels?

  • #903344

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    newhere, at last…

    Someone finally mentioned the remote Hoosier Governor as the man to run for National office. My Man Mitch — The “Blade” — is my pick for the top of the ticket to take on Obama in 2012. I hope to compile a profile (and more than just another profile) for the person I believe can take this country back on track, in the next few days.

    Give Me a Break,

    You seem to have quite of a conservative litmus test for your candidates (as your list suggests — Herman Cain). I therefore wonder where Petraeus (a self-described Rockefeller Republican) gets into the picture…

    Additionally, I just wanted to tell you: Don’t worry about Lichtman’s Keys to the White House. I leave these theories up to liberal professors (in the likes of our fellow member Charlie Hall). These theories come and go and fade with time. If you analyze Lichtman’s factors, you can see how it was constantly amended to stay viable. You must forever ask what “Social Unrest” means and what Military Success/Failure defines etc. and tailor it accordingly. Nevertheless, I am currently preparing something that works with his keys — against Obama’s favor.

  • #903345

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Now that I’ve disclosed my choice for the top of the ticket, I thinks I should just roll out my picks (I will elaborate and explain more about it in the future):

    First Choice: Mitch Daniels/Marco Rubio

    A combination of executive experience (on the top of ticket) with legislative experience. A serious ticket that will convey a strong economic message and will attract moderates and Tea Partiers alike. This balanced ticket (with Indiana and Florida both vital states for Obama) also has two different levels of charisma.

    Second Choice: Chris Christie/Paul Ryan

    Christie has the belly and Ryan has the brains to put this country back on a fiscally moral track. This ticket has no minority but has two great men from blue states (across the spectrum of the country) that have already changed America. This ticket also has executive (although sparse) experience on the top and legislative on the bottom.

    Third Choice: Tim Pawlenty/Nikki Haley

    Pawlenty would be a great every year candidate, or better yet, vice presidential candidate. He has a great record as governor in a purple/blue swing state and has the right message. However, he is much too dull — which makes him my third choice. Haley has the firebrand and will excite the base while capturing female and minority votes. She has the healthcare issue to her favor. This can be considered the “Tea Party” ticket. Yet, Pawlenty can easily attract independents and Democrats as he did in the past.

  • #903346

    newhere
    Member

    davehirsch- Glad to see there’s someone here who realizes that Daniels is clearly the best choice for president. I always find it funny when the media discusses all the “baggage ” potential candidates have. It goes something like this: “Ginrich and Trump have their marriage issues, Romeny has RomneyCare, Pawlenty is too dull and a little too into the green stuff, Huckabee pardoned a killer and is not conservative enough on immigration, and Daniels was caught with pot in the 1970s.” It’s hilarious that is the dirt they come up with on Daniels, he was caught with pot 30 years ago!! That’s how you know he’s the best choice for president. I agree with all that you wrote except I would prefer a Daniels/Ryan ticket. No better people than these two to tackle the budget.

  • #903347

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    newhere,

    Seems like we’re the only two wonks or eggheads here…

    I don’t think that smoking pot is Daniels’ “baggage.” His lack of charisma and unpresidential looks (add his humble demeanor) is his problem. I try to convince myself that it will do, and with good reason, nevertheless it is truly my biggest concern. To fill that vacuum, I chose Rubio. Rubio also has the benefit of making the ticket quite a balanced one (Indiana-Florida is more balanced than Indiana-Wisconsin). This is besides the advantage of a Cuban-American on the ticket. There is more to it, and I’ll discuss it at ample time.

    I’m a big fan of Paul Ryan. He tells Americans the truth about the fiscal future of this country (I’d say Daniels says the full truth and Ryan says only part of the truth). Yet, a joint ticket with these two will have only one message (albeit a strong one) and a pessimistic one at that. It might backfire. I also believe that two economic think-tanks would clash if serving together. Each person will have their own ideas that they’ll like to implement. I’d also prefer to have one brain in the executive branch and another in the legislative branch — not to put all of our resources at the White House.

    *Lately, there has been a myth that Daniels supports a one-sided truce on social issues. This is also baggage. He’d have to use his strong pro-life/anti-Toeiva record to prove the voters that he’s on board with them and simply wants to focus better on the bigger threat. He might try to frame the debate as: Republicans want to reform the bad things for a better future while the Democrats punt and focus on social issue instead — which won’t “win the future.”

  • #903348

    Hillary Clinton

    Donald Trump

  • #903349

    newhere
    Member

    davehirsch- I hear what you’re saying about Rubio, you may be right that Daniels needs someone like him as a running mate. However, I disagree with you about Daniels’ lack of charisma. The way I define charisma is that when that person speaks I want to hear everything he has to say. The media likes to call Obama charismatic, but for the life I me I can’t understand why. When he starts to speak I have no interest in hearing what he has to say, and the amount of “uhs” he uses really irks me. This has nothing to do with his policies, I could listen to Clinton speak for hours even though I can’t stand his policies. Daniels, on the other hand, has something to him that make you want to hear what he has to say. As George Will put it, he has the charisma of competence. Also, it’s true that he’s short, but he is a very good-looking put together fellow, and I don’t think looks will be an issue.

  • #903350

    newhere
    Member

    davehirsch- I hear what you’re saying about Rubio, you may be right that Daniels needs someone like him as a running mate. However, I disagree with you about Daniels’ lack of charisma. The way I define charisma is that when that person speaks I want to hear everything he has to say. The media likes to call Obama charismatic, but for the life I me I can’t understand why. When he starts to speak I have no interest in hearing what he has to say, and the amount of “uhs” he uses really irks me. This has nothing to do with his policies, I could listen to Clinton speak for hours even though I can’t stand his policies. Daniels, on the other hand, has something to him that make you want to hear what he has to say. As George Will put it, he has the charisma of competence. Also, it’s true that he’s short, but he is a very good-looking put together fellow, and I don’t think looks will be an issue.

  • #903351

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    newhere,

    I agree with you on Daniels’ charisma (note how I wrote two levels of charisma). I actually loved Will’s statements at CPAC and nodded when he said charisma of competence. Will also noted that America has elected short presidents in the past. Nevertheless, he doesn’t have the presidential looks and charisma. His humble demeanor might affect his firebrand and Rubio can fill that vacuum.

    I actually have had a theory for quite a while about the charisma gap. I believe that Americans have no patience for rhetoric; they want a competent man and just like Obama was the anti-Bush, Daniels will be the anti-Obama. This can be seen with Sarah Palin’s approval rating; it sharply declined even among conservative voters. Many conservative commentators also support this claim.

  • #903352

    Dave Hirsch:

    That’s actually a pretty darn good question, and I don’t think my weak answers would suffice. But I’ll attempt to anyhow.

    1. I miswrote when I said I’d put Petraeus in my Presidential lineup. Put Cain there instead.

    2. Frankly, our bellicose-pacifist President hasn’t got a clue about the world, and while some of the Governors are great, they don’t have foreign policy experience.

    3. Although I am indeed highly conservative (to be precise, a right-wing Reaganomics-slash-Bush Doctrine neoconservative), I am so sick of Obama that I’d even vote for Lieberman or McCain.

    4. As Congress wages war, a military tiebreaker might help.

    5. This one is funny, but… Petraeus looks like a President.

    My ideal ticket would be Huckabee or Cain running with one of the Floridians. However, it would be a problem with Huckabee, as he is a resident of Florida.

  • #903353

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Give Me a Break

    1. Sound like a politician…

    2. True. However, you have to be an Obama/Carter idiot (sorry Mr. President — after yesterdays speech where you engaged in dumb partisan talk, I think you deserve it) to alienate allies (bellicose) and befriend enemies (pacifist). Ronald Reagan had no foreign policy credentials and he did great (better than former UN ambassador and CIA director George Bush). You need common sense to engage in diplomacy.

    3. I’d even vote for Hillary over Obama. Remember, it’s our dream ticket we’re discussing here.

    4. Valid reason. The question is if you’d want a VP for just one purpose.

    5. I’d opt for Huntsman or Romney if it’s ony about presidential looks.

    I would say that Patraeus

    has the electibilty factor. He perhaps has the best chance to beat Obama (if foreign policy is the issue) and has absolutely no baggage.

    What is the problem with Huckabee being a Florida resident? Arkansas or Georgia for that matter wouldn’t make the ticket any more balanced. Huckabee factually still has influence in Arkansas.

    Which Floridians? Rubio and Scott?

  • #903354

    The problem with Huckabee being a Florida resident is that if he runs with one of the Florida residents (I refer to Rubio and Bush – Scott isn’t well liked in FL), the Florida electors would not be allowed to vote for both of them, as per the Constitution.

    In regards to answer 3, my reasoning was sort of like your postscript – Petraeus is electable.

    In regards to answer 2, the difference between Reagan’s era and now is that it was then a Cold War, not a physical one.

  • #903355

    charliehall
    Member

    ” Don’t worry about Lichtman’s Keys to the White House. I leave these theories up to liberal professors (in the likes of our fellow member Charlie Hall”

    ROTF!!!

    While Lichtman *is* indeed a liberal, the last time the Lichtman keys failed was 1856. He predicted both the Bush 2004 and the Obama 2008 wins far in advance and predicted an Obama 2012 win last summer.

  • #903356

    charliehall
    Member

    Of all the mentionees here on the Republican side, I think Daniels would be the best candidate and a serious threat to Obama. He is a true believer right wing conservative but he also understands that government is needed — and he doesn’t go out of his way to offend people the way Chris Christie does. And Indiana is in pretty good fiscal shape today; he would certainly carry his home state, which Obama carried in 2008. (The last time that a candidate lost his home state but still managed a victory was 1916, and there is no way that Mitt Romney is going to carry Massachusetts.) The trouble for Daniels is that the reason Indiana is in pretty good fiscal shape today is that Daniels raised the sales tax, and that will kill him with Republican primary voters. The Tea Partiers who want to destroy government rather than to make it work better won’t accept that.

    On the other extreme, I suspect that Trump or Palin might lose 49 states to Obama. (Trump could lose 50.)

    Looking at things state by state, it is pretty hard to see Republicans switching enough states from 2008 to defeat Obama in 2012 — and Republican governors in Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida are a major reason for that. Paul Ryan’s attempt to end Medicare as we know it has probably killed Republican chances in Florida.

  • #903357

    charliehall
    Member

    “as Florida’s junior Senator, he’d attract Florida,”

    Maybe if he could get Rick Scott to resign. He has really tarnished the Republican brand there. And Ryan’s plan to End Medicare As We Know It will be a huge weight on Republicans in any state with a lot of elderly voters.

    ” and as a Cuban-American, he’d draw the Hispanic vote, which is an enormous bloc”

    Voters of other Hispanic ethnicities vote the opposite of Cuban-Americans.

    BTW, add Pennsylvania to the states where an unpopular governor may be tarnishing Republican prospects. According to a recent PublicPolicyPolling survey, Corbett’s favorability is now at 34%. Toomey is doing even worse, 32%.

  • #903358

    zen3344
    Member

    New here. Republican since I started voting; I do not understand how any Jew could have voted for this past ticket.

    My choice for 2012 – Col. Allen West/Marco Rubio.

  • #903359

    Feif Un
    Member

    I think Christie would be a great President, but he’s said many times that he’s not interested in running. I would go with whoever the polls say has the best chance of beating Obama, regardless of what I think of him/her.

  • #903360

    charliehall:

    As for Rubio, I am indeed worried about Scott’s tarnished reputation. That’s why I think Jeb Bush is a better choice than Rubio. After all, he is the only Republican governor of Florida to have won two terms.

    Your point about the separate voting tendencies of Cubans and Mexicans is well-taken. However, it may be a rather different scenario if a Latino is actually ON the national ticket.

    zen3344:

    Ill say it again: the Constitution, both in its original form and as delineated in the Twelfth Amendment, expressly forbids Presidential electors from placing both their ballots for a resident of their State. Cheney got away with it by registering as a resident of Wyoming, which he had represented in Congress (like George W. Bush, he was a Texan). If Allen West would run with Marco Rubio, it would mean the loss of 29 electoral votes for one of them.

  • #903362

    newhere
    Member

    Dave Hirsch- As someone who has similar political views as you do (although I have a feeling I’m a little more conservative than you), i was curious which of the republican contenders you would not vote for against Obama. I know I would vote for Obama over Ron Paul. I keep changing my mind if I would pick Trump over Obama. Right now I’m thinking I would probably would pick Trump. It’ll be a hail mary, chances are it’s a really bad idea, but who knows maybe this is what’s going to save our country.

  • #903363

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Haley Barbour is out. Barbour was deemed a powerful figure in a potential 2012 matchup given his extensive resume and fundraising capabilities. The former RNC Chairman will retire his gubernatorial post in the state of Mississippi in 2011 due to term limits. The successful Governor and RGA Chairman has a 70% approval rating in his homestate and leaves a remarkable record of leadership. However, as is the case with every career politician, Barbour had much baggage he would have to defend had he entered the race. He is still seen as a viable veep pick.

    Haley Barbour’s exit can boost Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels’ chances for winning the nomination and can also signal that he will enter the race in general. Friends since they worked for President Reagan, Barbour and Daniels have a similar agenda and have defended each other quite often. Barbour’s cash advantage will benefit Daniels and can make him a serious contender.

    Barbour’s exit also benefits former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty. According to the elimination method, Pawlenty is out to gain from the departure of high profile anti-Romney candidates. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee might look at Barbour’s exit with interest. His decision whether to take the leap for the nomination, therby losing a well paying job at Fox News, can depend on whether he can capture the Southern vote that is now up for grabs with Barbour calling it quits. He can try to win Iowa and capture South Carolina to win the GOP nomination.

  • #903364

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Give Me a Break,

    Oh! I didn’t think you were referring to the constitutional limitations placed upon the electors of a state with two of its residents on the ticket. This is absolutely no problem. Firstly, Huckabee can register as an Arkansas resident (despite the construction of his Florida mansion) as Cheney did (as you mentioned). Secondly, the President can still get the electorals of his state. It will only bar the electors to vote for the veep which would have to be decided in the Senate (which will likely be under Republican control).

    I believe that the Republicans have better electable candidates than Petraeus. Mitch Daniels for one (recently called ‘serious’ by President Obama) is definitely electable.

    True. However, the Cold War was a psychological war that left many Americans edgy about America’s exeptionalism; the war on terror is a war that needs to be lead from the Pentagon. Reagan induced optimism into the American public and boosted their morale that. Led to the collapse of the Soviets. General Petraeus would make a great Secretary of Defense and would perhaps be more effective working for the Pentagon than in the White House.

    newhere,

    Although I know that Charlie Hall (and undoubtedly nfgo3 — the one who constantly distorts facts and engages in demagoguery to ‘Palinize’ me) will disagree with me, I tend to classify myself as a moderate. Nevertheless, I fundamentally believe that Obama is ruining this country. His ideology is making irreversible damage to this country — worse than you can ever imagine. While I will hesitate to pull the lever for Ron Paul, I will not vote for President Obama if he continues on this path. I’ll let you in on another secret: I probably have more in common ideologically with Ron Paul than with (the old) “The Donald.” My conviction is that Donald Trump’s shift in issues is as fraudulent as Obama’s birth certificate.

  • #903365

    “My conviction is that Donald Trump’s shift in issues is as fraudulent as Obama’s birth certificate. “

    Dave:

    Obama released his full long-form birth certificate today.

  • #903366

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Dovid Hamelech,

    At last. I am elated that the President has finally tackled this non-issue that will finally fade away to enable serious GOP candidates to focus on policy. Hopefully, along with the demise of the “Birthers” will we at least see the death of Donald Trump’s presidential ambitions. I, of course didn’t pretend to say that the fact that Obama was born here is fraudulent — I meant the issue of his birth certificate and as a swipe on The Donald. Although I questioned Obama’s judgement in hiding his birth certificate from the public thereby spending millions in defense, I believed that he was born in America as I’ve stated many times.

    I do wonder why they chose to release his certificate now. If I were the Obama reelection campaign, I wouldv’e waited to be challenged in the General Election on this issue (if a Birther would win the GOP nomination and stress on this issue) to derail the Republican’s chances to beat Obama. I honestly question their judgement as its release will guarantee the focus on pressing issues such as the outragous debt, rising gas prices, threats of stagflation and the foreign policy failures of their administration.

  • #903367

    GumBall
    Member

    MOSHIACH!!

  • #903368

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    GumBall,

    If you mean Moshiach Ben Dovid, I do not want to see him on the ballot in 2012. I would like him to come NOW! Additionally, he has the eligibility issue…

    If you’re referring to “The Messiah,” well, he most certainty will be on the ticket.

  • #903369

    Health
    Participant

    I want either Huckabee or Gingrich as pres. And Palin as VP.

  • #903370

    charliehall
    Member

    Ron Paul has put out overtly anti-Semitic material in his publications. He and his son are trying to end US aid to Israel. I hope we can all agree that they are both beyond the pale.

  • #903371

    Charlie: Regarding the son, opposing foreign aid is “beyond the pale”?

  • #903372

    Health
    Participant

    Hey Charlie – Wouldn’t you agree that my picks are more pro Israel, than Mr. Obama?

  • #903373

    Ron and Rand Paul want to end all foreign aid to every country including Israel. He’s not singling out the Jews like some of the people on the left who want to “stop funding the occupation”

    But ending aid to everyone (including Israel)is fine with me, when you take aid from a country that does not have your best interests at heart then all you are doing is giving them control over your internal decisions that best suits their needs. It’s better to cut the purse strings and do things your way.

    One of these days maybe “our people” will wake up and realize that not every conservative white xtian male is out get them.

  • #903374

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Charlie,

    I agree with you about Ron but not about Rand. Ron has made many troubling statements (as I already posted in the past, I believe). It is very unlikely that I would vote for Ron Paul (if there’s a third party candidate that has similar views to those of myself). I should also note that Obama has a troubling past of anti-Israeli activity (so an anti-Paul vote for Obama is not the solution). I don’t know Trump’s position on Israel. He claims to be a steadfast supporter (his daughter also converted to Judaism), but, as with all other issues, I don’t take him on his word.

  • #903375

    GumBall
    Member

    Hey evryone do you think barack hussein Obama is gonna win For 2012??

  • #903376

    Dave Hirsch:

    Correct. But zen3344 mentioned Allen West, not Mike Huckabee.

    Also, relying on the Senate is playing with fire.

  • #903377

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Give Me a Break,

    I was referring to:

    The problem with Huckabee being a Florida resident is that if he runs with one of the Florida residents (I refer to Rubio and Bush – Scott isn’t well liked in FL), the Florida electors would not be allowed to vote for both of them, as per the Constitution.

    A West/Rubio ticket is futlie.

    If the GOP won’t nominate ‘Mama Grizzlies” such as Sharron Angle and Christine O’Donnell then it’s near certainty that they will capture the Senate (they might lose the House though).

  • #903378

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Tim Pawlenty Loses First GOP Debate

    You can’t really declare a winner for the first Republican presidential debate (which took place today in South Carolina and was sponsored by Fox News). Only five of the declared candidates participated: Tim Pawlenty, Ron Paul, Rick Santorum, Gary Johnson and Herman Cain. Pawlenty is the only serious candidate. The other contenders were only there to make the debate a carnival barker and a bit more interesting (Pawlenty alone would be disastrous). People didn’t tune in and is would have no effect on the voters.

    Tim Pawlenty blew it. He had the opportunity to present himself to the public once more, and he failed again. Granted, he looked presidential and answered tough questions, but he didn’t exploit it to his benefit. “Mr. Nice-Guy” perhaps reiterated his Personality traits (they’re actually good, but not for a presidential candidate) and showed that he cannot engage in confrontations. His reluctance to berate Romneycare or to take a swipe at Huckabee proved once more that he is “too nice” to be president.

    Nice guys finish last…

  • #903379

    ronrsr
    Member

    Charles Lindbergh / Father Coughlin

  • #903380

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant
  • #903381

    Health
    Participant

    Dave – Why go with Pawlenty? He is as famous as Huckabee. At least Huckabee had enough Sechel to give it up. The only one that has a chance to beat Romney is Gingrich. If Romney wins the GOP, he will lose to Obama. Centrist candidates can’t bring out the vote of the conservatives and Obama will win again. I do feel Gingrich has a chance against Obama. The conservatives will wake up and vote for him because they don’t want another 4 years of Obama, but they ain’t coming out in force for Romney!

  • #903382

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Health,

    Pawlenty is less famous than Huckabee. If he would be as famous as Huckabee and connect better with voters, then he would’ve been my pick in place of Christie. His problem is that he doesn’t connect to voters.

    Gingrich is a flip-flop, self-centered, no-chance choice. His record is murky with his gaffes and scandals. He simply has no self-control. The conservatives will be weary to vote for Gingrich as well. Pawlenty has a record he can run on. After all, he’s one of the only governors with an ‘A’ from Cato.

  • #903383

    Health
    Participant

    Dave – Our Gov. (C.C.) says he isn’t running and I believe him. Even if Paw would be the most honest man in America, he still doesn’t stand a chance because he’s a no-name. If Gingrich gets back to the way he used to be as Speaker, I think the conservatives could fall behind him. But if it’s Romney, be prepared for another four years of Obama!

  • #903384

    Unfortunately, with all the names mentioned in this thread, there’s not one who could beat Obama if the election was held right now. By this point 4 years ago, it was clearly Hillary and Rudy as the frontrunners, so a lot can still happen. But my biggest concern is that the GOP has failed to come up with anyone who is a serious contentder, and that also has the ability to be a unifier. The idea of Obama has a lame duck is even scarier then Obama is this first term.

  • #903385

    I have chosen my dream ticket for 2012:

    Former Florida governor John Ellis “Jeb” Bush for President

    Head of CENTCOM David Howell Petraeus for Vice President

    An idea I had, though admittedly highly unpopular, would be to put up a moderate third-party ticket of, say, Joe Lieberman and John McCain. This would make it more likely that no candidate would receive a majority of the Electoral College, which would throw it to the House of Representatives. Being that 31 of the House congressional delegations are GOP-held, the Republican would be elected.

  • #903386

    Health
    Participant

    I think the only chance of the repubs winning is if they put up a staunch conservative. I don’t think anyone mentioned by you or anybody running is within that catergory. Maybe S. Palin, but the hypocritical media who loves women and minorities, made her look like a fool, which she can’t possibly reverse. They only like minorities and women who are libs. If you’re not a lib, then all this equality stuff goes out the window. Gingrich used to be that way, but I think he’s been out of politics too long and he’s a bit mellow. Yet, he still might turn himself around. My reasoning is because you see from the last election -if it’s between two guys in the middle, even though Obama really isn’t in the middle, the dems will win. The only chance for the repubs to win is if they pull out a conservative, so their conservative base will come out in droves to vote.

  • #903387

    I’ve pretty much settled on my choices.

    For President:

    1. Richard John “Rick” Santorum

    2. Timothy James “Tim” Pawlenty

    3. Herman Cain

    4. Newton Leroy “Newt” Gingrich

    For Vice President:

    1. Eric Cantor

    2. Allen West

    Any opinions?

  • #903388

    shein
    Member

    Rick Perry.

  • #903389

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Texas Governor Rick Perry to announce his candidacy for president on Shabbos.

  • #903390

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Dave do you think we will only read your posts if they are in bold? that is really not necessary. If your words have merit then we will read them if they are in plain type.

  • #903391

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    As expected the liberal media is hyping up the comparisons between Bush and Perry.

    George Stephanopoulos Endorses White House Strategy That Perry Is a ‘Carbon Copy’ of Bush

    Meanwhile, front-runner Mitt Romney slammed Obama’s “Magical Misery Bus Tour” with an ad featuring disgruntled Minnesotan slamming the President for not doing his job.

  • #903392

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan is Considering a Presidential Bid

    Although I’m rooting for Ryan and would choose him over the current field, I don’t see how he can catch up to be a serious contender. He doesn’t have the fundraising capabilities or name recognition that Gov. Rick Perry has to enable him to be a late entrant.

    Karl Rove floated his name last night on the “Hannity Show” as a potential contender.

    @The Goq,

    I do it for significant news (headlines) or titles.

  • #903393

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    What was supposed to be a weak, uninspiring Republican field became an action-filled, substantial crop of candidates. A handful of successful governors (Huntsman, Johnson, Perry, Roemer and Romney), another handful of influential former or current members of Congress (Bachmann, Gingrich, McCotter, Paul and Santorum) along with some businessmen (Cain is only one of the pack). Yet, is the field about to get even bigger?

    Big Names Push Paul Ryan to Run

    Other Potential Late Entrants

  • #903394

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    Moderates Win the Debate

    Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman emerged as the winners from the debate held at the Reagan library. Rick Perry, despite a good start, performed poorly as Michele Bachmann flubbed.

  • #903395

    Tomche
    Member

    The question is not who “won the debate”. The question is who will be the best President.

    The answer, IMHO, is Rick Perry. Mitt Romney would be a good second choice. Both have realistic shots at claiming the nomination. Jon Huntsman does not.

  • #903396

    Only viable ticket: Moshiach.

    Unless Perry really is another potential Reagan, I would seriously like to see Obama win again. If Obama does win, he and everything he stands for will finally be discredited after he really brings the US to the edge of the abyss. Then, there will be a shift back to real American values that will last for 10 terms, rather than just politics as usual from election to election.

    Otherwise, we will see constant shifts back and forth in every American election based on sound bites and good marketing, while China, which does not have to worry about elections, walks all over the US.

  • #903397

    akuperma
    Participant

    Herman Cain for President

    Eric Cantor for Vice-President

    serious Republican candidates for all Senate and House races, even in New York

  • #903398

    Rick Santorum for President

    Eric Cantor for Vice President

    John Bolton or Newt Gingrich for Secretary of State

    Allen West for Secretary of Defense

    Bob Barr for Attorney General

    Rick Perry for Secretary of Agriculture

    Mitt Romney or Herman Cain for Secretary of Commerce

    Tim Pawlenty fir Secretary of Labor

    Bill Frist for Secretary of Health and Human Services

    Jeb Bush for Secretary of Education

    John McCain for Secretary of Veterans Affairs

    Joe Lieberman for Secretary of Homeland Security

  • #903399

    Who would have thought, when you posted this last month, that Rick would have had an even semi viable shot. Funny how quickly things can change. Cain is now totally out of the picture. Bachmann could still show up in some capacity or other, but not likely. Perry should be packing up and going back to Texas shortly.

  • #903400

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Trump/Santorum

    My dream ticket would be Guiliani/Cain, but Rudy wants to eat hot dogs and go to Yankee games. I guess he has a right to chill out now.

    Career politicians and talking heads and academics and trust fund babies who have not made a dime on their own and Jersey governors who cant stick to a diet but put their constituents on a harsh finanical diet equivalent to a 500 calorie a week diet, all with no real world experience, have ruined this country.

    The further we go back to the American Founding Fathers, you will find they were capable of “doing” good things, and not “talking about doing” good things. Winning a debate does not translate to rolling up your sleeves and going to work.

  • #903401

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    A Woman outside bklyn,

    Rick Perry undeniably would make the best president out of the pack; he might not be that smart, but he was/is an effective governor and has a proven record that no one in the race (including Obama) can compete with. However, he cannot win Obama in a debate and should therefore not win the Republican nomination.

    Additionally, his strategy was a losing one. As I tweeted after his debate flub, he was to focus fully on Iowa — not with TV ads but with retail (like Santorum has) — in order to remain viable. His staying in the race now comes across as aloof; he doesn’t have the war chest, and even the most stellar debate performance won’t put him back on track.

    This election season was forcasted to be volatile and shaky from the start. Mitt Romney cannot seem to garner more than 25% of the vote (although his Iowa showing — despite winning with less votes than in 2008 — was in line with previous GOP candidate), and the conservatives cannot seem to decide on one candidate. We had a different star weekly and they all faded. Expect Santorum to fade shortly as well; his fiscal record is perhaps quite liberal, and his departure from the Senate wasn’t pretty (he lost by 18%).

    The best thing for Romney is the fact that the conservatives aren’t united around a single candidate. However, it is also a disadvantage for him and the GOP; Romney is not yet prepared for the general and must have a bumpy road in the primaries in order to get roughened up for the Axelrod machine.

    BTGuy,

    I hope you’re not serious. Trump? The biggest attention seeker in the United States for president? If Christie can’t close his mouth (for food), The Donald can’t contain himself either (for illogical talk)! He’ll do anything for his benefit at America’s expense.

  • #903402

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi Dave.

    Am I serious about Donald? Am I the only one? Yes, I am serious, although the level of seriousness is relative with the pack of politicians we see in our times.

    I dont care if Trump is also an attention seeker. Obama is worse and he is inept in all areas.

    For better or ill, cartoon character or not, Donald has a lot of real world experience, and being a known persona, is not necessarily an unhelpful thing. He can conduct himself on the world stage in a reasonable way, again, in comparison to the others.

    Specifically, I like his idea of American nationalism in the economic realm. I believe he is not beholden to anything or anyone, but his sense of commerce, and his own experience, and he will do good things.

    The others cannot come near Donald either in rhetoric, and especially contacts and experience.

    Christie, I believe, has psychological issues due to his weight problem. Like I said, I believe he cant stick to a diet so he is projecting onto us.

    It is horrible to live in NJ. Everything is sky high.

    The tone of the Christie Administration is basically: “New Jerseyans, dont expect anything new, and what you already have, will be cut in half”.

    Yet tax payers kick up more and more and more money to Trenton. Taxes go up, prices go up….everything gets more expensive and you get less for the dollars.

    Nothing is filling up the cup?

    Christie is horrible.

    Back to Trump. I am not voting for personality. I suspect they all are obnoxious in their own way.

    Frankly, if you wanted to start or build a business, sorta your own little economy…who would you want to sit down with and talk to???

    And, please, I know Trump had problems, and to me, that is a plus that he has had that experience.

    Shlomo HaMelech said: A wise man falls seven times and gets up seven times.

    And the comment behind that is the fact that when one falls, they get up again, that is where the wisdom is.

  • #903403

    Dave Hirsch
    Participant

    BTGuy, I read Donald’s book on how to get rich and it didn’t work, so…

    Trump is not ready to be president (Obama was far from prepared… how did it work?) and he knows it. There’s more to the presidency than knowing how to navigate a business and how to hire effective managers; Trump is a successful businessman and rhetorician but that won’t help him pay off the national debt (his one-time debt tax plan is ridiculous) and get the economy back on track (Advice: don’t follow Trump’s predictions, they’re usually wrong). Do you really think invading countries for oil will work? Can we afford a trade-war with China now? Do you want universal healthcare (Trump thinks Obamacare is not enough)?

    I can expose the chameleon here (who flip-flopped on every single issue more than Kerry-Romney-Obama-Gingrich combined); however, since my time is limited and he’s unelectable, I can just tell you that the worst thing for America is a spoiler candidacy by Trump. It will just reelect Obama and continue America’s destruction (some conspirators even believe that he’s part of the Obama-machine and wishes to ensure him a 2nd term).

  • #903404

    ayshoshee
    Participant

    christy is running for vice? oh the stuff ur left out of knowing for being out of the country for 4 months

  • #903405

    Health
    Participant

    I posted here 8 months ago on page 2 -I’m for Gingrich.

    I have nothing against Santorum, but I don’t think he can win the Republican Primary or the Presidency.

    I think it will be either Gingrich or Romney for the Republican candidate.

    If Romney wins, I don’t think he can beat Obama. And even if he does -he won’t do any better job than Obama. Gingrich has what it takes to tackle this horrible economy and make a dent in it!

  • #903406

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi Dave Hirsch.

    Well, where do I begin? lol

    So you read Trumps book and didnt get rich…

    I read Joe Frazier’s book, “How To Box Like The Pros”. (I really did) Do you hear of a BTGuy going for a title fight anytime soon? lol Does that fact invalidate Joe’s capabilities or legitimacy in the field of boxing?

    The problem with politics is that it is a very gestalt thing. The fact is, as with all people, you can create an argument on the pros and cons of everyone. Person A will overlook the cons, and person B will overlook the pros; all on the same person.

    I will make a quick stab at responding to some of your points.

    As far as being ready for the presidency, let’s go back just a little bit, because who was ready?

    Nixon? Maybe he was ready, but it did not help him from committing a crime and disgracing America to where we have never rebounded.

    Carter was ready? He was lame at best, but did damage all the same.

    Reagan was ready? While he has a big following, a priori he was noted as a B rated actor, at best. And, it was said California is not indicative of the being able to lead the rest of America.

    Clinton. The economy thrived, although he was a jerk, and if you want to credit Reagan, see above comment on Reagan, and that, de facto, means Clinton was not ready either.

    Bush Jr??? He didnt even want the job. And it showed. He got rich and ruined America for good.

    Obama? Not prepared, of course. He is keeping America ruined.

    Bottom line: Yes, I do think Trump’s ideas will work. The career politicians status quo has already sunk America, which is existing only on the fumes of it’s past glory.

    Trump is our last ditch effort by someone who has worked and dealt with money on the world stage his entire life.

    Unless Moshiach comes sooner, we are headed for a Feudal system sponsored by the Republicrats and Demicans.

    It is an insult that Americans have to cheer on and pick among these politicians and make believe they will make a difference.

    This country was originally made brilliant by people who had world experience. They were not career politicians.

    Believe again in another career politician only to feel you have to wait another four years for things to swing the other way. I am not riding that Merry Go Round anymore.

    Trump ’12

  • #903407

    coffee addict
    Participant

    I think if Romney wins and chooses Marco Rubio I think it’s a sure vote for him

  • #903408

    coffee addict
    Participant

    I think Gingrich is going to drop out after this

  • #903409

    147
    Participant

    My dream ticket for 2012, is for 1st time in 14 years, to be able to stay up & accomplish something over Shovu’os nite, being this is 1st time in 14 years {since 1998} that Leil Shovu’os is a Saturday nite, so I can sleep Shabbos Erev Shovu’os afternoon instead of running around from work & buying cheese cake.

  • #903410

    BTGuy
    Participant

    At this point, I am guessing a Romney/Santorum ticket would be a dream ticket to oppose O’Bummer. I actually have grown to like Santorum. Romney, to me, seems ditzy. I dont get his popularity.

    While I liked Trump in this pack, obviously, he is out now.

    My own, personal dream ticket wont happen. Rudy won’t run. : (

  • #903411

    cholent guy
    Member

    It’s R&R people! Romney N’ Ryan

  • #903412

    Health
    Participant

    To all – Read my posts on the previous page and this one and you’ll see that I was right. No, I don’t have Nevuah (even though some people here think I’m a Shoita) and I don’t have Ruach Hakodesh, but I do have common sense, which obviously isn’t too common. (Chochom Odif M’novi.)

    This isn’t to brag, but to show how to think. I admit that I was having wishful thinking in the last few months, but deep down I knew Romney couldn’t win.

    My wishful thinking never brought me to call Romney as the probable winner like the conservatives did, both Jewish and Goyishe.

    So why did these Cons/Repubs think this way? Simply because in order to think clearly you have to take away all Negious. The Cons/Repubs wanted so much to get rid of Obama that when the polls were showing it to be close -they let their Negious take over their thinking and called it for Romney.

  • #903413

    farrocks
    Member

    Romney was never the conservatives choice. The conservatives supported others such as Santorum, Perry, etc. Romney won due to a split conservative vote in the primaries.

  • #903414

    Health
    Participant

    farrocks -“Romney was never the conservatives choice.”

    And that’s exactly my point. If the Repubs want to get into the oval office again – they have to put up a conservative.

    They have to fight dirty. No more nice guys like Romney and McCain.

  • #903415

    farrocks
    Member

    The problem is that the Republicans have a long history of nominating centrists rather than conservatives. Romney, McCain, Dole, Bush I, etc. The last true conservative was Reagan. And before Reagan it was way back with Goldwater, in 1964. Even Bush II wasn’t really conservative, especially on economic issues.

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