56 Responses

1. Is this a satire?

   ‘We are all Yishai Shlissel.” not quite

2. Kol Hakovod, YWN. Your response of outrage saved me the trouble of totally losing my temper. If I may, I just want to say that I AM NOT Yishai Schlissel. He is a raving, bigoted madman & a terrorist. And his friend is just as culpable – I understand the shock, but excusing him? What kind of person is HE?

   He talks about being Yeshivish? Well, I’m not, I am Chassidish & I have gay cousins (one in a 10 year relationship) & I am PROUD they are my family. They treat us with the utmost respect – more, I might say, than the “Yeshivish” crowd. And we respect them – they know we don’t condone their lifestyle, but we love them as people. What they do in private, regardless of the fact it is issur, is not our business. Let me tell you, the way to bring people to Yiddiskeit is not through hate but through love. That’s why there is such emphasis on AHAVAT Yisrael.

   YWN, you were very smart to omit this person’s name – at least he is safe from attack, like his good friend inflicted on these innocent people. Do you, Mr. X, have ANY compassion for the family of a 16 year old girl who was savagely attacked for no reason? Or do you keep your misguided pity for a lunatic murderer. HIS G-d is not mine either.

3. In prison, we were told, he was still jealous, smashing the TV in his cell, for instance.

   I believe you mean “ZEALOUS,” not jealous.

4. I used to check YWN on most days to see the local frum news and also the perspectives of the YWN writers as well as the perspectives of the people posting comments.

   Growing up in Brooklyn I was exposed to many types of frum Jews and now I have met Jews of all walks of life.
   I am not here to judge anyone.

   But lately I find myself checking YWN more for entertainment purposes because I simply cannot comprehend some of the articles and the people posting comments. The ignorance and embarrassment is appalling.

   Why even post this letter from this writer?
   Of course our Torah forbids the lifestyle that certain people practice. and it goes without saying that we are not allowed be judge, jury, and executioner and to commit acts of murder on our own.

   Clearly this is a disturbed man and the first time he attempted to kill was just as wrong as when he succeeded in his twisted and horrible act of murder.

   I ask YWN why do you even post the letter because it just sheds a negative light on what this frum Jewish news website represents.

5. While I don’t agree with this guy and the stabber. How come the clergy, including Rabbis, and politicians went crazy about one guy? And when Jews are killed or maimed, there is business as usual? There is a G-d and supporting this abomination, even if you don’t do it yourself, will ultimately be punished!

6. Pinchas was a murderer…a cold blooded murderer.
   He was not divinely inspired, he had no clear directive, not from G-d and not from the Gedolim of his time.
   He acted out of his own sense of what is right.

   He murdered in cold blood and we as Jews should distance ourselves as far as possible from the actions of Pinchas ben Elazar HaCohen.

   Murder is murder no matter who does the killing, who is killed, or what the cause. There is no justification for murder.Whether conquering Amalek, chasing out the nations of Eretz Yisrael, fighting the Greeks, the Romans, the Babylonians, the crusaders, the nazis, ISIS, Hamas, Hezbolah, you name it. Murder is murder is murder.

   When the tehillim says in “al naharot bavel” that we hope to smash the skulls of the roman children on a rock, that was not literal, and could not possibly be a Jewish sentiment.

   Can that be right? Is it fair to say that for better or worse, our perception of the morality is heavily shaped by the ideas of our liberal westernized culture which is devoid of any Jewish basis?

7. Your response was 100% on target!

8. I am not going to offer my opinion I am simply going to ask how many people who pit forth their “daas tora” ever bother to ask what proper jewish thought is.

9. #6 Says it.

   Apologetics, and conveniently avoiding true Jewish sources, in HAZAL and making dishonest claims like: “Judaism does not promote violence” “Killing is never condoned”, as off the wall and wrong.

   Welcome to the helenism of Orthodox Judaism! Watering down and hiding those parts of Torah that do not jive with your attempts to gain favour in the eyes of the nations and other more helenisitc Jews.

   Twisting Torah, is an unacceptable bushah! It is forbidden and leads to galut!

   Truly who needs to answer before H’ Yitbarakh Shemo and Am Yisrael, is the Haredi world which has the numbers and ability to turn the medina on its head to prevent “pride” marches in Yerushalyim Ir HaKodesh, but does not. G-d bless Shlissel!

10. richashu’s comment is total am haaratzus at best and kefira at the worst. Pinchas was a tremendous tzaddik with a parsha in his name. It’s not for nothing that he was given Kehuna and send to lead the revenge against the midyanim.

    We would be acting in the highest standards of the Torah when we attack those that blatantly attack the Torah and bring all of the Jewish people into danger.

    I am not advocating murder in the case of the Gay parade but what if a bunch of people infected with a non curable disease marched through Jerusalem putting everyone at risk of an early painful death. Would we be complacent about it and do nothing about it? The march of the toeiva people is an attack against G-d and his Torah and should be protested vigorously.

    My Hashem have rachmonus on klal Yisroel and bring salvation to the Jewish people from all tzaros and violators of the Torah.

    Research Rav Eliyashiv’s response to Yishai’s first attack.

11. THERE IS NO EXCUSES FOR THIS GUY.HE IS BAD

    Now that I said that , I have but 1 question. Would such hatred and negative remarks ( which is all fine with me ) ,be used if lets say , by the Israeli day parade , someone went and stabbed or shot ( g-d forbid ) the Neturei Karta guys ? I think not.

12. richashu: Learn Rashi on Chumash. He asked Moshe Rabbeinu first.

13. richashu: i am so disappointed in you and others like you who have compared him to pinchas. and i think this is the point you may be missing: there is a difference between being gay and the sin of mischchav zuchir. Did you know that there are gay frum jews who are gay but because they are frum dont engage in mishchav? they too can be proud of who they are even if they have never engaged in a sinful act. this parade had nothing to do with an act (in fact the woman he killed was not even gay) and everything to do about being gay.

    the parade is about being proud in the way hashem has chosen to make you. it is not about a sex act.

    let us assume for a moment that being gay is a disability that one is born with and let us compare it to downs syndrome (as rabbi feldman of ner yisroel holds). if people with downs syndrome decided that they want to have a parade to proclaim that they are not embarrassed about who they are and, quite the opposite, are proud in the way hashem made them, would you be opposed? so why are you opposed to this parade? (al achas kamma vekamma someone who is gay and remains frum has reason to be proud.)

    now you may not understand the need for someone who is gay to demonstrate his pride as a method by which he validates his condition but that is only because you were lucky enough not be born that way. you have no right to judge those that were and do.

    in sum, (leaving aside whether one today can act as a kanoi when he sees a sin being performed) there is no justification whatsoever in raising a violent hand on those who are gay and are proud of it. i am quite pleased that the gedoilei hador have spoken in unison to condemn schlissel yimach shemo and hope that the rest of klal yisroel will follow their gedoilim.

14. richashu,

    comparing schissel to pinchas?

    let’s commpare

    everyone was sinning yet pinchas went after one guy, schissel would’ve went to all of them

    pinchas asked if it was the halacha, whereas schissel went against the gedolim

    maybe next time compare yoshkeh to a rebbe

15. to the letter writer
    you say that the jail etc caused him to be a murderer as he has nothing to loose
    I don’t think so

    my father ah was incarcerated as well in AUSCHWITZ MATHAUSEN AND EBENSEE
    when he was liberated he also had nothing to live for but neither he nor his generation went on a killing spree which would have been justified whether killing germans or jewish kapos
    you theory or position makes zero sense this is a deranged person
    who perhaps if he had a job a job and not spend his unproductive life in kollel he would have less time to think about killing people
    please don’t try to justify this period

    the state of Israel is a jewish state but its laws are not the torah laws till moshiach comes live with it and take the best of it and thow out the garbage and avoid it that’s the best we ccan hope for

16. We are not on the level of Pinchas ben Elazar whom G-d Himself accepted as a righteous man.

    To kill some one in the name of G-d is taking too much on one’s personal authority. It is totally forbidden to kill another Jew in such conditions.

    True those who are the gay mentality are totally wrong from the Torah viewpoint but we are not entrusted by G-d to seek revenge. Better they should repent, as we say, “G-d does not seek the death of the wicked, but that they should return to him”.

17. This entire saga is tragedy heaped upon tragedy. YWN is correct to have printed this letter and the letter writer is correct in much of what he or she has to say. We all need to see all perspectives of the issue, even if it is hard and we need to understand that the root of of these tragedies is in sinas chinam.

    The gay community fully intended to inflame passions by starting a gay “pride” march in Jerusalem because they were intolerant of anyone saying that they homosexuality was a sin. This man attacked the parade because he was intolerant of the “sinners arrogance” of proclaiming pride in their sin, in G-d’s holy city of Jerusalem. The state did everything it could to destroy this man and his family and made no attempt to rehabilitate him; because they hated his kind and his deed. And now, after destroying anything he may have had, the state let him loose to repay his hatred. It’s really quite sickening.

    The 16 year old girl’s parents are correct in calling for everyone to learn tolerance and love and to stay away from hatred, machlokes and intolerance. Pinchas ben Elazar HaCohen DID go to the the greatest leader and the greatest judge of all time, to Moshe and asked what the law was. Moshe told him that the law was execution and that Pinchas should be the one to do it. After Pinchas did what he was told to do, the Torah confirms that what he did was correct and that it was done properly. This was most likely the first and last time a zealot did a zealous act correctly. Today we have no Moshe, we have no one who can rule in capital cases and therefore murder for the sake of G-d is simply NEVER allowed.

18. richashu:

    In your first paragraph, you show everyone that YOU ARE AN APIKORUS!

    This letter reminds me of the typical NPR reporting, when, after a Arab terrorist blows himself to bits on a bus, killing Israeli’s, they go to his Arab family to “report” and “commiserate” how they are “coping” after the loss of their hero. This is total rubbish. As the mods correctly pointed out, how do you answer, the first time he did his crime???
    As I have never hid my comments on my disgust for Gay Marriage and those who support/promote/honor these PERVERTS (especially unzera), THERE CAN NEVER BE ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT THIS PERSON DID!

19. I also love to see the guys post their views or sources of “daas torah”.

    Yes a frum Yid follows the torah, all of it and not just selected items.

    A simple reminder that we live in gaalus, we have not BHM, we don’t have San Hedrin now. Our current baatai denim are mainly for simpler civil manners (I wont get into the current state of bais din in America today).
    My point is to remember that we should not stoke the flames of anti Semitism and we try and live our lives in gaalus with some discretion and remain out of lime light on current topics. Any half educated goy knows that a frum yid does not condone the life styles that many of the parade attendees chose to live. But we just keep quiet and teach our own children the proper way of living as a frum yid. Navigating those waters while in galus is never easy. But being vocal to the secular world is not the way.

20. To Richashu,

    You sound like an internet debator who cares about sarcasm, sharp words, and ignores nuance or real sources. Chazal describe the very limited application of “kanaoim pogim bo” and are clear that outside those parameters what Pinchas did would have been murder for which Pinchas would have been chayiv misa (assuming aidim and hasrah). This case wasn’t even close to those parameters. Shlissel is a murderer, pure and simple.

    L’maysah, even in Bais Din, we Torah Jews cannot administer the death penalty no matter what the crime (since 40 years before the Churban). The only time a Torah Jew can kill is self-defense or war.

21. Pinchos never asked a shaila first. He did what he did without asking anyone.

22. 1. Stabbing a maidel for demonstrating in favor of something that is at most “DeRabanan” (we ware talking girls here – not “Toeiva” which involves males)???? The girl wasn’t even accused of doing anything other than holding and expressing views contrary to Torah, which is true of most non-frum Israelis.

    2. Using force to established a Jewish state in Eretz Yisrael is also an issue as יעלו בחומה though I doubt the individual is all that hareidi. It should be noted that anti-zionist hareidim reject using violence against the zionists.

23. I think people have a tendency to make overbroad statements. “Jews NEVER kill. EVER!” is such a statement. Read the Artscroll autobiography by Yechiel Granatstein “The War of a Jewish Partisan”. Yechiel Granatstein was a frum Jew who killed Germans fighting as a partisan in WWII. I don’t think anyone would say that what he did was wrong. Well, that was different, that was a war and he was killing Germans! Maybe, but this just demonstrates by way of one example (and there are many, many more) that you have to put parameters around a statement that “Jews NEVER kill”. Yishai Shlissel’s actions may violate the statement “Jews NEVER kill” even after the statement is narrowed by parameters, caveats and restrictions, but the exercise still needs to be done.

24. Besalel- you are wrong to compare a gay pride parade to a down-syndrome pride parade. There is no aveirah whatsoever involved in having down-syndrome; in fact it’s almost the opposite- they are some of the most pure people in the world. Actually carrying out gay behaviors, however, is clearly stated to be a toeivah. Why would we encourage and promote people’s pride in being gay? Would you support a kleptomaniac-pride parade, or an adulterer-pride parade? If g-d forbid I had those urges, as much pride as I might have in the fact that I never actually act on them, I would be ashamed to publicly march in a parade announcing that I have these urges. It should be a private, hidden pride, that I and G-d know about, that He gave me these challenges and I am strong enough to overcome them on a daily basis. It is not something to flaunt in the street, to show the next generation that these are things we are ok with! And do you really think the purpose of the gay parade is to say, “we think the behaviors are wrong but we are proud that we are gay and not acting on it?” No. It’s to say, “we are 100% ok in what we are doing, no one has anything to be ashamed of when it comes to being gay, and we want the world to recognize our lifestyle as an acceptable one.” No Jew, gay or otherwise, should be supporting such an outlook. This is not to say the murderer was in any way justified. He was 100% wrong. But to justify the parade- that’s wrong too.

25. Do chazal call pinchas a cold blooded murderer? Do they say he had no clear directive from the gedolim of his time (I seem to remember Rashi saying that he learned the halacha from Moshe Rabbeinu who was punished for getting angry and who forgot the halacha)?

26. besalel,

    I am not here to defend Yishai Shlissel, but I do take issue with your statement “that the parade is about being proud in the way hashem has chosen to make you. it is not about a sex act.” I don’t think the parade organizers and participants make this distinction. I think their intention is to celebrate both. Certainly the intention is not to celebrate that they have resisted their homosexual urges and avoided acts of toeiva. That indeed would be cause for celebration.

27. The tolerance for murder is a total shock to me. I am also not great fan of incarceration, as it has zero rehabilitative qualities, though it is a good place to park someone who is a threat to others. This Shlissel guy is probably mentally ill, and his evaluation and treatment should be mandated. But let’s examine a few other angles here.

    One – taking law into his own hands. Exactly who appointed him to serve as judge, jury, and executioner? Pinchos was appointed by Moshe. And when Eliyahu Hanavi’s midoh of kano’us reached its crescendo, HKB”H sent him to Har Chorev (aka Har Sinai), and made a demonstration for him that Hashem’s presence is not exposed in loud drama, but rather in “Kol Demomoh Dakoh”, a soft whispering voice. Eliyahu continued his complaints about Achav/Izevel, and HKB”H gave Eliyahu Hanavi his last mission = “choose your successor”. He could no longer fill the role as a leader in Klal Yisroel. Kano’us has a specific and limited role, and those who do not possess the Torah knowledge lack the ability to discern when it is appropriate. So this murderer was not committing an act of kano’us and Kidush Hashem, but was rather a personal act of aggression and passion, not Kidush Hashem. That is intolerable, and all Yidden who possess a neshomoh should shun such behavior. I hope this next prison term is for much longer, and includes psychiatric treatment. I sympathize with the disgust for to’eivoh. But murder and violence does not help.

    Lastly, the sheer chutzpah to compare this bloodthirsty animal to Pinchos ben Elozor ben Aharon Hacohen is staggering. That alone requires major teshuvah. Perhaps some effort to find the appropriate Makom Kadosh (Pinchos was Eliyahu, who has no kever) to ask mechila would be indicated.

28. Most of you are missing Rachashu’s point – everything except the last paragraph was tongue in cheek/sarcastic and not meant to be taken seriously. He was trying to explain a justification for this guy’s actions and why the criticism is unjustified by saying Pinchas was considered good, so therefore this guy is as well etc…

    For the record, I disagree with Rachashu, I think this person’s actions are unacceptable and against the Torah’s perscription but I just wanted to say that point of clarification.

29. chochom,

    he asked the shaylah of isn’t the halacha kinoyim pogin bo

    google it

30. I take it as a complement that I managed to cause so many passionate responses with my post.

    I have been called an apikores, a mechutzif, an am haretz, in need of serious teshuva, a clever internet chatter who is really a charlatan-ignoramus, having never read chumash, etc…

    Some of you did not even realize that I was sarcastic until the last sentence of my post….

    The rest of you, with one exception, have failed to address the essense of my post which is, our outlook towards schlissel is shaped more by our western liberal culture than it is based on Torah. The concept that killing is universally wrong, is a liberal western concept, not a Jewish concept, in case you forgot after 300 years of Galus in the enlightened West.

    As much as you try to spin, mask, and apologize for the story of pinchas, it is a story which, at its core teaches us that at times of danger, at times of crises, we need to take action into our own hands.

    Interestingly, I never said that I support shlissel, or would encourage anyone from taking action like he did. I am just encouraging a more honest discussion of what happened, and hoping that some of you refrain from viewing what happened from the perspective of a liberal goy.

31. They’re using the stabbing ,to push a seismic revolution in the country’s consciousness
    R”l

    If heaven forbid ,we soften on this ,we should file a religious global chapter 11.

    These parade goers are part of global movement ,pushing a social transformation that Judaism views as worse than society of murderers,rapists,etc.
    Their insidious goal is to bring ” the middle Israeli” such as kachlon supporters over to their side and then ram through the Knesset…..

    Whether the fellow who stabbed was crazy which he surely was ,and whether his actions are counterproductive , we all emotionally ought to feel the same as him

32. ‘V’taki ha’aretz osam’

    Shrewdly they intend to manipulate the ‘hamon’ from deploring these people through sympathy for the victims into slowly accepting them

    We have to loudly opine to the world ,that these people and their supporters have less in common with us than simple gentile folk!

    The chofetz Chaim,as is known,stated that Amalek includes those of jewish extraction

    It is brought down [in two sources] that the egregious evil of Amalek that we are obligated to battle our final battle is Toi’evah

    And if some will claim there’s to be collateral damage from this ,So be it!

33. While I think that there are many excellent reasons not to have a parade especially one in Jerusalem where it will offend others I am able to recognize that he parade is about people celebrating who they are not what they do. It is hard for us to understand since at heterosexuals we do not see ourselves as heterosexuals we see ourselves as people but the gay community see themselves as gay humans irrespective of whether they are sexually active and they want to demonstrate pride in who they are not what they do. This is why comparing schlissel to Pinchas is absurd. If he was Pinchas he would have killed a man engaged in a gay act. Then we can debate whether he is Pinchas or not Pinchas whether he is a true kanoi or not whether he needed to ask a shaila or not whether you need a Beis din or not etc etc but he chose to attack and murder people for being proud of who they are and there is simply no comparison to Pinchas here. He is a rotzeiach.

34. Their goal is to weaken our resolve

    Could you explain thus:
    The fellow stabbed 10 (or was it 6)years ago and was put in jail

    He told GSS he intends to stab again.

    They “happen” let him out 3 weeks ago?

    Then let him roam freely?

    We’re supposed to fall for it for being ” just police incompetence”?

35. He’s not pinchus he’s more like aisav

36. To peoplach who seemed to have forgotten: this man was luny. OK?! Not a judge, nor executioner. And the occasion he choose to ‘disrupt’ was not a ‘gathering of the righteous’.

    As I wrote on another site (way, way more left then this one), these animals are trying to introduce tuma, toava, abomination onto HaShem’s holy land, His Palace. They’re trying to remove any vesige of shame and guilt (effected by HaShem, FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE), by coming out in the open and broadcasting their filth, לפני כל עם. No, not enough. Make it a PRIDE PARADE. No less. In HaSHem’s holy land, no less.

    There is Judgement, there is A Judge. אית דיו ואית דיין.

37. All agree the stabber was disturbed ,but to defend the parade-goers?!

    What IS Judaism?

    Shaking a Lulav? This is more fundamental
    Davening? This is more fundamental
    Kashrut? This is more fundamental
    Shabbat? This is more fundamental
    Adultery? This is more fundamental
    Yom Kippur? This is more fundamental

    Will anyone try to disagree??

    #22,etc

    It’s rare and unusual and perhaps invoked often incorrectly ,but there is the concept in Judaism of collateral damage

    [Do you offer condolences for innocent arabs killed next to terrorists in Gaza?]

    By showing up to the parade,she and all the victims brought it upon themselves as a national choteh U’machti

    (I have neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate” – General Curtis E LeMay)

38. To any who will respond this NOT our obligation:

    Rav Moshe Sternbuch said in the past, it is our primal obligation to protest the parade albeit without violence

    Where were all of you who are now condemning Shlissel ,prior to his actions??

    The goyim [that my dealings bring me in contact with] are more confounded that we’re silent on the world upheaval of morality than any of unzereh financial scandals ,etc. that they read in the media and we hand wring about

    What are we here in this world for???

    When R’ Boruch Ber came to New York in 1929 he was greeted by Mayor Walker. The mayor asked him “what can I do for you Rabbi?”

    His prompt response [in Yiddish] was ‘Separate the males and females at the beaches.’
    He did not ask him for special favors for the Jewish community or e.g. “religious liberty” for religious Jews in the workplace..

    R’ Moshe Feinstein once said “Lev melachim v’sarim b’yad Hashem” implies that if/when we strive to fulfill our purpose in this world, then we are entitled to leave our community interests and/or Israel interests in His hands.

    I personally spoke independently to R’ Shlomo Miller, R’ Dovid Feinstein, R’ Shmuel Kamenetsky ,and queried them if we should be involved giving time and much energy towards battling for morality in society at large. They each responded in the affirmative and encouraged.

    Kal V’chomer in Isreal

    Otherwise ,Take off our yarmulkes and sheitels

    Let’s cease our/your pretenses

39. ור].

    ועכ”פ מדברי הרמב” למדנו דברי נוראי, שכל עבירה באר ישראל

    חמורה שבעתיי יותר מעבירה בחו”ל, ומשו שבכל עבירה באר”

    ישראל א# בזה”ז, זולת העבירה על ציווי ה’, הר”ז עבירה ג על רצו ה’,

    וזהו הטע שגדולי ישראל רעדו לנסוע לאר ישראל שמחויבי לקיי

    בה את המצוות ג מחמת רצו ה’, ובעוה”ר בזמנינו באו פריצי וחיללוה .

    ארץ ישראל איננה סובלת מחטיאי הרבים

    “ואבדת מהרה מעל האר” הטבה אשר ה’ נות לכ”, (דברי י”א י”ז).

    ופירש”י וז”ל “אגלה אתכ מ האדמה שגרמה לכ לחטוא, משל למל

    ששלח בנו לבית המשתה והיה יושב ומפקידו אל תאכל יותר מצרכ

40. To ittsme (post 24)

    Excellent response, you are 100% right.

41. Did Yishai Schlissel have a Certificate of Appointment to G-d’s Police Service? I think not. Had G-d wanted to venge his wrath against the gay pride parade, He would have done so. But it didn’t happen. Why not? Because there is a lot that is wrong in our own community that needs to be put right. Let’s start by considering the Neturei Karta. I do not see anyone stabbing their perverted members. We may consider them to be crazies. Yet G-d does nothing against them. He also has His reasons here. It is not for us to act “in the name of G-d” in any situation. (I do take into account Pinchos, but that was a one-off situation – check the meforshim on the Torah)

42. EVERYONE IS MISSING THE IRONY IN THIS LETTER!!!

    I quote;

    “When a man is taken away from his family – his wife, his kids – his community and friends, his Rav and his kollel and put in jail for daring to put his religion before Humanistic values of life – does anyone think he will come out changed? Is there any expectation that he will reform in jail? I don’t think so. I think he walked out firmly convince d that he was the victim, the person jailed al kiddush Hashem, for doing the correct thing.”

    This is so metaphorically the perfect description of the gay teenager/adult who is confused. Not looking to cause trouble. Wants to be frum but doesnt have a place because of the lack of sensitivity of the frum community to his plight. This boy/man ends up being taken from his family, sometimes kids, and certainly his community, friends etc… HE tries to put Hashem first but there is no place for him. Do you not think he comes out a changed person? Do you think this young man will reform? HE will end up looking for the love that he can only find outside of the frum world. This will end up with him needing to feel loved and pride in who he is because he can’t get it elsewhere. And then he will walk in a parade to finally feel good about himself and get stabbed.
    The irony is unreal. No one here is looking at it from the true “victim’s” perspective. There will be a day when your son, daughter, brother, sister and maybe even parent or best friend will confide in you that they are gay. I promise your kanayusdike perspective will change very quickly.

43. #41
    Did HKBH stop the holocaust?
    Did he stop the pogroms?

    Therefore we were supposed to let them happen?

    Where does He say Murder is wrong? in the Torah

    Would you tell me what in the Torah is

    chayav sekillah

    and

    Harog v’al ya’avor

    and

    one of the sheva mitzvos

    and

    You’re allowed to kill on the way before the act

    and

    Is never ever suspended (say,like murder could be )?!

    How about the famed Noda beyehuda that chas ve’shalom to allow and ex fortiori to promote even a minor sin in an public is much worse even if it causes to come about a much more egregious sin done by the evildoers on their own privacy
    confirmed by the Igros Moshe

44. #41

    Are you a clowning around , putting NK (whatever their faults)in the same breath?

    Are they part of a global Movement overturning the planet?

    Last we checked there is zero mention of NK in the Torah?

    While this is as explicit as could be!!!

45. I see a child enveloped in flames. The bystanders are afraid; they do nothing, or else they are only trying to save the building. I see the child. I rush in. Should I first ask my neighbor whether he, too, sees the child? Should I worry whether, in my haste, I am jostling someone, or perhaps hindering the salvage of the building by running in? Perhaps I am causing a draft, fanning the fire?

    “‘But,’ you might ask, ‘what if you are too late? What if the building collapses on top of the child in a roaring conflagration before you reach it?’ To this I reply: ‘Were I to be buried under it, I would at least have done my duty.’” (Rav Shamshon Raphael Hirsch, Letter Nineteen, The Nineteen Letters).

    We are in this world for the purpose of bringing moshiach

    That is all .

    Agree or Disagree?

    There are many (mouthing piousness ) whose goals are ..very different

46. David Rubin

    David Rubin is former mayor of Shiloh, Israel

    …

    Israelis should be concerned, as well. In a blatant show of LGBT intolerance, and as evidence of the aggressive focus on that political agenda, Minister Bennett – along with Jewish Home MK Yinon Magal – were reportedly prevented from attending the Tel Aviv rally by the Israeli National LGBT Task Force, while Energy and Water Minister Yuval Steinitz (Likud), who did attend in support of the LGBT community was booed offstage by thousands of attendees. Only those public figures on the Left were allowed to participate, because they support “the agenda”, which aims to fundamentally change society by blurring gender identities, eventually leading to public acceptance and legalization of gay marriage in Israel, giving such sexual deviations an equal social status as the traditional family structure, the marriage bond between a man and a woman.

    Social laws in a society are based on values, which generally are based on the heritage of the civilization. The traditional family and traditional religious social values are under attack in Western civilization. The international LGBT movement, as an integral part of the Left, is at the forefront of those attacks, which often are quite aggressive, and in some cases, even violent.

    Funding the teaching of tolerance can be very positive, but only if it is under the careful auspices of Israel’s Education Ministry and if it has a narrow non-political focus, emphasizing the importance of kindness and of peaceful discourse in a civil society. Funding LGBT organizations that have a long term, malicious political agenda is a mistake that Bennett should seriously reconsider.

47. #41, hendoner

    Thank you for driving home my point. The right way. I specifically did not want to spell it out, but since you did…

    .. Had G-d wanted to venge his wrath against the gay pride parade, He would have done so.

    Oops – HE DID SO.

    Through a deranged individual, who is clearly not responsible for his OWN actions. If this is not an ‘Act of G-d’, what is?

48. Pinchas was a great Tzaddik saved the jewish people from
    destruction,
    The Torah says every male Homo Sexual must be killed.
    Schlissel made a big mistake killing a girl,there is no justification for that.
    Jerusalem should have HAD 500,000 religious people demonstrate
    against the Gay parade.
    A city which allows a Gay parade and the people do rot rise to prevent it,deserves to be destroyed like Sodoma
    and Gomorah.
    the male gays of Israel are the horrific cancer of the
    jewish people as the TORAH SAYS THEY MUST BE ALL KILLED.

49. This comments section makes me so so so so sad and angry.
    I can’t even.
    Schlissel was a deranged maniac who did an indefensible thing. He is not Pinchas, he is not the Leviim at Cheit HaEgel, he is not any sort of tzaddik or martyr. He is a sick man who ended the life of a teenager and injured several others on the command of the voices in his own head.
    Ignoring this action to instead indict the paradegoers is unjust. No group, however wrongly they may be acting, ever deserves a lunatic attacking them- if it was wrong for Schlissel to attack anyone, the fact that they were celebrating an aveirah is irrelevant. He was still absolutely insane and forbidden to do anything even vaguely resembling what he did to any person and the fact that these people were associated with something forbidden is completely inconsequential. Murder is murder and who the target was does not make it okay. It is awful that this killing has actually (through publicity) increased the indictments on the people who were victimized and, therefore, seemed to try to justify the murder. It is unjustifiable.
    richashu, okay, you can make quibbles about the word “never.” However, we are not living in a society where, on our own, we can make such cheshbonos. If, for example, you could somehow divine that your cashier at the supermarket was Amaleki, would you automatically brain him with a watermelon? If not, does that mean you are tainted by Western values? Yishai Schlissel’s case doesn’t even begin to compare to any of the cases you describe- going out on his own without consulting anyone but the voices in his head and stabbing Jews who were not even engaged in any particular aveirah. (Yes, Pinchas asked Moshe Rabbeinu what he should do in the case of Zimri- it’s in Sanhedrin.) But you say you admit that (or at least don’t deny that)- even so, all of the cases you describe are not straightforward and not in any way, shape or form relevant responses to the mod. Fine, so you win on semantics, but there is nothing in your response that takes away from what the mod’s basic point was- Yishai Schlissel’s action was despicable.

50. I’ve never commented before anywhere on YWN but this whole situation is very sad from many perspectives.

    I find it amazing that their are 41 comments on this story. When SCOTUS passed the law allowing gay marriage just a few months ago I saw maybe 3 or 4 comments.

    What this person did was very wrong and certainly can not be justified but at the same time WHERE IS EVERYBODY’S ANGER WHEN THE WORLD IS TRAMPLING UPON HASHEM’S SHECINA. Where is the outcry and outrage. How come we don’t feel the pain that Hashem is feeling now as the world is going against his will and laughing in his face as they commit the most profane and disgusting acts.

    What I heard from most people when SCOTUS passed gay marriage was “nu what can we do” maybe it’s not so wrong” or my favorite “we have to get with the times”.

    We know from the Midrash that Hashem destroyed the world only after the courts starting writing certificates approving Toavas Hashem. Pretty scary since this is what is exactly happening now.

    So you ask “what can we do”. We need to feel the pain that Hashem is feeling because when it hurts you cry even when the crying doesn’t heal anything IE: like breaking a bone Chas Veshalom.

    We learn this lesson from Iyov who was punished because he didn’t stand up to Paroah even though his vote didn’t count when Paroah wanted to drown the Jewish babies in the nile.

    This Rosh Hashana we have a choice to make. Do we want to be part of the 20% of Klal Yisroal that left Mitzryaim or do we Chas Vashalom want to be the 80% that dies because they were so far gone.

    May we start feeling the pain and anger Hashem feels as the world continues to profane his world which he created and gave to us, and may we accept him as our undeniable ruler and king this Rosh Hashana.

51. What was the purpose of publishing this letter? To prove to all that you are normal; that you don’t fall for narrow-minded, radical frum/yeshivish thinking? (And then cop out at the end: “This doesn’t represent YWN’s true views?”) Well done, o liberal one, you earned the respect of #2 and the like, no doubt left nodding their heads, with a thought bubble coming out of their head, saying “Oh, s/he’s normal. Very normal.” Mission accomplished.
    Now can you please post this as its own page, in the spirit of “DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE POSTED ON YWN? SEND IT TO US FOR REVIEW”? (Interestingly, YWN posting a letter is extremely rare; I guess you don’t usually encounter proper-response/pretty-words-inducing letters. I hope mine makes the cut.)
    As a total p.s., I love your unedited letter which has the name of an organization censored.
    DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT PROMOTING SHLISSEL’S ACTIONS NOR DISPUTING YWN’S ATTITUDE (ugh, I hate cliches). I’M MERELY DISGUSTED BY THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO FLAUNT THEIR NORMALCY FOR ALL TO SEE.

    Moderators Note: Anyone who has an email address with the name of a US President has their own issues to deal with. But thanks anyways.

52. I’m very surprised ywn attacked this seemly logical outlook on the matter.

    And no one said it better than Rav Amar “he tried to put out a fire with gasoline”
    We do not kill in our societies but that doesn’t justify the toeiva, there is a raging fire and unfortunately we can’t do anything to stop this government and Schlissel couldn’t take it.
    We should have that feeling there is a fire burning down our land and we just have to watch it burn.

53. #10 G-D sends messingers; ‘Harbeh shluchim lamokom’. So how do you know this fellow wasn’t? (ust aing according to your pthetel
    )

54. Rabbi Yaakov Meidan, Dean of the Har Etzion Hesder Yeshiva at Alon Shvut, explained Wednesday that it is one thing to accept individuals who are stricken with homosexual proclivities, and a completely different thing to accept the so-called “gay community.”

    Regarding private individuals, the rabbi said that he knows “an entire organization of people who hang on by their fingernails to the Torah and the mitzvot (commandments) and do not flout the Torah prohibitions, and they have same-sex tendencies. They consult with rabbis on how to do and what to do,”

    ..

    “I, personally, am adamantly opposed to the gay community,” he said, however. “This is a community which carries out these parades and there is a purpose here to sway youths to try [homosexual relations]. These are people who do things in order to provoke, on purpose. A person who goes to march in Jerusalem, the Holy City, his purpose is simply to anger others. .. These are things I strenuously oppose.”

    Rabbi Medan said that there is something “very violent and very repellent” about the gay community’s style of protest, which he said is typified by a threatening manner. He noted that the protesters after the stabbings at the Gay Pride Parade held up hands stained with red paint, in a motion reminiscent of the infamous Ramallah lynch of 2000.

55. seriously, mod? Upset that publishing my email address for all to see won’t bear its desired effect, so you settle for such a line? Real sharp.

56. His actions were “sane” if you consider that: 1) he is a zionist (hardal, but certainly not hareidi such as Satmar or Neturei karta); 2) zionists believe it is a mitzvah at this time to establish a Jewish state in the land of Israel; 3) a Jewish state is one in which public policy reflects Torah; 4) zionists hold by using violence to accomplish their goal (otherwise they would have been forced to accepted an autonomous community in an Islamic state, since the Arabs weren’t about to agree to a zionist or Jewish state); 5) if Torah allows violence (as zionists hold), and homosexuality is incompatible with a Jewish state (as Torah holds), then it would be logical and rationale and sane to use violence against the pro-homosexuality demonstrators.

    Schlissel may be an apikores (same goes for most of Dati Leumi)but given his assumptions and his halachic holdings (which are shared by many if not most religious zionists), he was acting logically. Just because it is bad public relations is no reason to consider him mentally ill. Rejecting Torah for the temptations of zionism leads to murdering children.