Community support for Jewish education

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  • September 4, 2014 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #613587
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    The thread on rejecting students for not paying tuition was getting hijacked by this topic, so I figured I’d start a new one.

    I am a firm believer that every child getting a Jewish education should be a community responsibility. The big question, though, is how to accomplish this.

    Let’s first look at one possibility, that of an insular community. It may be a chassidic community, or an out-of-town community with only one or two shuls and one main school system.

    In such a system, the answer can be fairly obvious. If there is only one or two shuls, then increase the shul membership dues, and let the extra money go to the school system. Anyone who is a member of the shul will get discounts on their tuition because they are already paying more into the “pot”. Since there is not a choice of shuls to go to, you should have more people paying, including those who don’t have children in the school system.

    Where it gets more difficult is when you have a community like Brooklyn, where there are hundreds of shuls, and dozens of schools. A system like the one above can’t really work. I’ve thought long and hard about a solution for such a community, and honestly, I don’t have an answer. But I’d love to hear some ideas here!

    September 4, 2014 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm #1030782
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    DaMoshe – Unless people stop being members.

    Even Lakewood doesn’t have a community school, then they would have to accept everyone, and teachers wouldn’t get paid.

    Good luck.

    September 4, 2014 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #1030783
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Again the problem with communities paying into the systems are as follows

    (1) who pays, You cannot force anyone to pay, How can you force a Reform jew who lives in the area to pay or a Satmar to pay for a Zionist Yeshiva

    (2) If a parent pays as a community member and their kid is “undesireable” can the yeshiva kick them out? You cant take peoples money and not expect an education for the kids.

    (3) what if somones financial situation changes, Are you going to check everyones Taxz returns and decide how much to charge them

    September 4, 2014 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1030784
    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    Another option that may work is rotating classrooms. Since real estate is expensive, eliminating that would result in significant savings for a school. If classes are held in parents homes, in a class of 20, a parent would have to give a room for the class for only one month every second year.

    September 4, 2014 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1030785
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    GAW: If they’re not members, then they don’t get the perks. No aliyos. You have a yartzeit coming up? Too bad. A seat for the Yomim Noraim, when shul is packed? Sorry!

    If people believe in it being a communal responsibility, then they should be willing to participate.

    zahavasdad: True, you can’t force people to pay. It would be from the people who support the type of education you have in the area. You’re not targeting reform Jews, you’re targeting the Orthodox community. A Zionist yeshiva would be getting funding from the Zionist shuls, not the Satmar shuls.

    If a kid is undesirable, that’s a while different story. The issue of kicking those kids out has been discussed many times. I don’t want to get into it again.

    If someone’s financial situation changes, you address it, much as you do now. At the end of the day, it should be cheaper for the people who have kids in the schools, and more expensive for those who don’t. Someone needs help? You work with them to figure out how much they are able to pay.

    September 4, 2014 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1030786
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    DaMoshe – Why are you willing to kick the adults out of the community if they can’t pay more than their children?

    September 4, 2014 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1030787
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If a kid is “undersireble” , but the parents had paid towards the communal funds since they moved into the neighborhood (mabye before he was even born) thats very differnet than a kid just getting kicked out from a non-communal school. By taking communal funds you are accepting responsility for good and bad kids

    September 4, 2014 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1030788
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    zahavasdad, in communal schools, they usually accept a lot more responsibility anyway even for “problem” children, as there aren’t too many other options. Even if they feel a kid needs a different school, they will usually work with the parents towards getting them into the school.

    GAW: Why would they have to pay more than their children? They just need to pay the shul membership.

    Let’s take an out-of-town Modern Orthodox community. They may have one shul, and one school system. Let’s say shul membership is $1,500 per family now, and tuition averages $15,000 per kid. Those are somewhat typical numbers for a MO area. Let’s also say the shul has 150 families who are members, and 75 of the families have children in the school system.

    Let’s say you raise the shul dues to $7,000 per year. Now you can take the extra money and put it into the tuition “pot” beforehand, and lower the tuition costs per student by that amount – provided that the students’ families are members of the shul! You’re not kicking people out, you’re just making some of the responsibility a communal one. Additionally, since shul dues are very often tax deductible, it would also amount to a savings for many parents of students. If someone can’t afford the shul dues, you can work with them to find out how much they can pay. I know that my shul does that already anyways with some people.

    September 4, 2014 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1030789
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    DaMoshe – If they can afford the 10K+ membership (because membership is now covering tuition, and in a growing community there are more children than families).

    September 4, 2014 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1030790
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    GAW: and if they can’t afford it, then they can ask for a discount. Nobody wants them to be pushed away.

    September 4, 2014 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1030791
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I think the result would be a lot of minyanim in people’s houses.

    September 4, 2014 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #1030792
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    DaMoshe – so why is that different than the current system?

    DY – correct.

    September 4, 2014 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1030793
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Gavra, DaMoshe’s way differs in that it transfers some of the obligation to families without school age children.

    I’m not really against it in principle, but again, I’m trying to be realistic .

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