Reply To: Vicarious Accomplishment of Women

“There was a wonderful (goyish) you tube fifties video that was used in public schools in the fifties and it made so much sense when it was presented this way.”

rc: If this is what public schools presented in the fifties, what makes you so sure that the principles herein are particularly “jewish” of “frum”? It seems to me that it was just the societal atmosphere are the time. And you also cannot argue that this is only “natural” based on this presentation because this is not anymore what is presented in public schools.

dveykus: I’ve heard those shiurim before. While they are very nice and inspirational, they do not address my questions.

Syag l’chochma: Well, why is it not my husband’s role to inspire me in MY endeavors, both personal and professional? Be a source of inspiration or comfort for the me so I can accomplish things.

I don’t see how “kol kevudah bas melech penima” encapsualtes an entire ideology that a woman’s main satisfation and role is in her internal life. Or that tznius is her supreme definition. Tznius is a midda, like any other. No one midda completely defines a person.

“Interjection, where did you get the idea that women are viewed as tools created for male entertainment? “

Golfer, she meant the typical explanation for “eeseh lo eizer k’nego” – that a woman was created to help a man. Meaning, her purpose is to help a man more than to have a purpose herself. From many of the posts above, it seems that we DO think women are there for men. Not entertainment. But to help them. If her is learning, help him learn. If he works, encourage him to learn with a chavrusah every day. If he’s down and doesn’t want to go to minyan, you be the one to inspire him. It’s all about what he is doing and you be the aid to that.

I have a problem with this hashkafah. I don’t have a problem with helping someone. Or being a source of inspiration. But I have a problem with being a chameleon that changes with whatever her husband is. And I think that a woman’s external accomplshments (I’m not talking about limud torah in this case; they would have a different type of value for a man and a woman) are equally significant to a man’s – assuming they are doing the same thing.

For those of you who are having a knee-jerk anti-feminism reaction, I would advise you to read up a little about it before swallowing all the negative things you hear. The feminist reaction is responsible for a tremendous amount of positive change in society, one which is notably important for men in kollel – your wives can earn a decent living and support you because of the feminist movement.

The feminist movement fought for things like: requiring a place of employment to hold a woman’s job if she has a baby, maternity pay, and equal pay for men and women who perform the exact same work. Are these things so terrible?

And no, the feminist movement has not “reversed” the role of men and women. It strove to make it possible for a woman to have a family and still maintain a career. And it made it possible for a women to explore more intellectual avenues of accomplishment. And it told women that with the advent of technology, they can now do housework in less time and use the rest of it to do other more useful (gasp!) things than washing curtains, dusting, or baking fancier seven-layer cakes.