Reply To: Is it ever appropiate to talk back to a Rebbi?

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#1046179
🍫Syag Lchochma
Participant

Everyone is right, but I think “the little I know” is the only one talking reality instead of theory.

Yes, if your son stands for an old man and you tell him to sit down (which I believe is a very rare occurrence if it ever happened), you will be setting a bad stage. I feel the same way about the (less rare)”tell them you are only twelve, it will be cheaper” and “tell them he is your brother so he won’t have to pay”, or “tell them you are returning it because it didn’t fit, they can’t tell you wore it all shabbos” Those people are doing a horrible thing.

The real reality, however, is that there are MANY, MANY, MANY parents who would not only have encouraged their child to give up their seat, but would have even offered to pay the old man’s ticket if need be. And invited him for shabbos as well. And those wonderful, middosdik, ehrlich parents who did NOT sow those bad seeds STILL ended up R”L with a child with serious questions. Or a child with chutzpah, or a child who ch”v turns away. You are correct that we need to do those right things, but you are wrong to think that it will have those results you dream of. Your job is to do what is right for your child, Hashem will put your child on the derech that is right for him.

Regarding the schools, only in a dream. You are speaking of discipline, we are complaining about abuse. And no school is free of the abusive rebbes, some more, some less, but they are everywhere. Sorry, but they are. And not all children can shoulder or observe the abuse and come out strong. Even if 50 of their classmates did.

My children have a wonderful Rebbe who was willing to acknowledge that the menahel was emotionally and verbally abusive to select students. He handled the situation by giving over very little information to the menahel, buffering the reports and handling all discipline directly with the parents. He was a life saver to several boys who were broken and battered. But one of those boys, who trusted this rebbe and no other, once caught rebbe on a bad day.

One of the impulsive kids in the class got in his face and made fun of him about something personal. This boy told him to shut up. The impulsive boy RAN for the Rebbe to say, “so-and-so used bad language”. The Rebbe walked over to the boy and grabbed him by the shoulders and shoved him up against the wall and said something to him about not even being able to make it through a morning without bugging people. That was the end of this boys trust (this rebbe was the only one he trusted), the end of his effort, and the beginning of a difficult road. The Rebbe’s response over the next few weeks was to tell the mom that he put loads of work into the boy but I guess the boy is just beyond help. No idea the damage his own words did. And the mother was too embarrassed to speak up.

And unfortunately, this story repeated itself with two to three boys in the class each year. And each time Rebbe would shake his head thinking that it was so sad that all the effort he put into the boy just didn’t help long term. Never a question to his own behavior.

So is this abuse? Does this boy suffer from the “bad seeds” his parents sowed? Does this mother have a right to complain? Do you know that an apology from the Rebbe would have turned it all around for many of the boys (I can only speak for the one’s I have worked with).

The theories are wonderful but the Rebbeim are over worked and underpaid. And not given the kavod they deserve. No question about that. But please don’t act like our boys don’t face humiliation constantly. Either they themselves, or their friends. And I DO believe that THAT chinuch has been the most damaging. Because the children will even opt to look up to crazy, materialistic, or overindulgent parents who are safe, over an ehrlich Rebbe who isn’t.