Reply To: Zionism, Why the Big Debate?

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#1101892
Yosi7
Member

Avi K- “The deal is off Because the Goyim Violated Their part of the bargain”

1) Didnt Mitzrayim oppress Jews? If so according to your logic why were Shevet Ephraim punished?

2) The Medrash Eicha says clearly that the Romans were violated their part of the oaths but it also says that Bar Kochva was punished for violating the oaths.

3)The Rambam in Iggeres Teiman is writing to Jews in Teiman who are undergoing “violent persecution” at that time but still warns them not to violate the oaths.

4) Maharal clearly says that even in life threatening situation not to violate the oaths.

“The Goyim Gave Permission us so it’s not Rebellion (Rav Meir Simch)”

1) The Ramban in Maamar Hageula says that the reason more Jews didnt go to E’y bzman Coresh was because they didnt know about the Nevuah that they were supposed to go up so they thought it was a violation of the oaths. Obviously we see that even with permission (real permission) from goyim it is still a violation of the shevuos.

2) Rav yonosan Eybashitz and the Yefas To’har both say explicitly that even with permission is a violation of the shevuos

3) The only source for this is maybe the Avnie Nezer..But 1) The minchas Elazar said that this Avnei Nezer go against everything the Avnei Nezer said publically so it may be a forgery. 2) Why would we Pasken like the Avnie nezer against the Maharal, Yefas Toah, Rav Yonosan Eybashtz et al

4) There was no permission from the Goyim!peacefully means without resistance and fighting. There was a war! many Jews were killed that is not peacful. Also, what the UN says doesnt make it permission. By that standard you must agree with all the anti-israel stuff the UN says today. By any means, there is no comparison to Coresh where there was no fighting.