DY
“if there were double blind control studies demonstrating the increase in violence due to ascension to HH”B, would it be okay since the blame is anyhow solely on the terrorists?”
I do think so. But I can see two tzedadim. so that isnt what I was focusing this discussion on.
mw13
“Forget who is “responsible”. Can we agree that if the editors hadn’t published the cartoons, they would still be alive?”
Most probably. Unlike terrorism in ISrael simply becasue we are there, attacks on tabloids in France have not hapened in the past. But that makes my point stronger! They would most proabbly be alive if not for the cartoons. They still have zero blood on their hands. Cartoons as offfesive as they are do not justify terror. Walking on har habayis does not justify terror. Even if the only time there was ever violence in Eretz Yisorel was when people walked on har habayis. The terrosists and only the terroists are fully to blame.
“Translating this into our sugya, can we agree that there are people who have been killed that would still be alive if no Jews ascending HHB (again, regardless of who is actually “responsible” for those deaths)?”
I’m not sure, probably not
Though you lost me “regardless of who is actually “responsible””
What do you mean “regardless” Isnt that the exact point we are discussing? whether those who asscen har habayis are responsible (to whatever degree) to the current terror.
BTW I had a very naive coworker who honestly wanted to know why didnt just embrace oso hoish. she said by not accepting him obviously this would upset the church so of course they persecuted us what should we expect.
Now leaving aside the halachic aspect (as I have for har habayis) do you think she raises a good point, that by rejecting oso hoish we incited violence against ourselves over the centuries and are partly responsible or as DY put it “have blood on our hands”?