Reply To: The Torah v. Morals

Syag: Firstly, you will notice that I didn’t comment on that thread on anything related to the main discussion. I didn’t “walk away” with that. I am not supporting either side in that discussion, and the intention of this discussion is not to continue the Closed Thread.

Let’s take your example. There is a prohibition called “Lo Sechoneim”, which prohibits giving gifts to non-Jews. And, like you say, if you are giving ten Jews gifts and don’t give the non Jew, your behaviour is incorrect. But there are two points I have to make here:

1) I know that you weren’t discussing the halachic element of the case, but thats just it: There is probably a heter to give the gift to the goy, to avoid ill feeling. [The issur is to give a ???? ???; if you have any sort of ulterior motive there are many heterim]. If, however, there would not be a valid halachic position to be ????, then you would not be allowed to do so, regardless of whether you feel that you should.

Take, for example, a similar case – you walk into a business meeting, where there are three people you meet: Two women and a man. You shake hands with both women, but politely decline shaking hands with the man for religious reasons. However upset he/you may be, the issur will apply. Anybody who would tell you take shake hands with the man is putting feelings over halacha.

My point is – your justification in that case is because the halachah allows it, not because it would be “morally wrong” not to.

2) My second point is more important. You probably will tell me that in the above case, your ‘objecter’ would tell you not to give anybody a gift, or at least not to give it in front of the non-Jew, and avoid the conflict. And if it wouldn’t be muttar to give the goy, he would be right.

What to do in that situation doesn’t take away from the ideology of the Torah. Whether the correct approach in that case is to give all, or avoid and give none doesn’t change the attitude of the Torah.

Take the Halachos of triage – the fact that the Torah gives precedence to a Kohein over a Yisroel, a Man over a Woman, a Jew over a non-Jew indicates something. And whether or not they apply in every case is irrelevant; it teaches something about the Torahs idea of hierarchy. However much it bothers people that some are born ‘better’ than others is also irrelevant.