lkaufman: Thank you for your kind words and thank you for starting the thread in the first place. As I’m sure this is not an easy path to go down, you have shared a part of your life with us and I’m sure we are all that much better for it.
Yussel, I want to thank you for your opinions and start off by saying that you too must be going through a hard and terrible matziv in your life. While we may disagree on many points I hope and pray for you that Shalom may return to what ever situation you and your family may be dealing with.
Next: I want to start off by stating that my main reason(s) for responding to your posts is to:
-a- Continue a dialog so that others who may be reading this will get a better perspective of what happens to a teen who goes off the Derech. We are a very proud nation and are quick to respond when our religion is threatened and attacked. It is so easy to misread the actions of these kids and thus we as nation are not able to properly deal with the problem. Something has to be done, but only by properly identifying the problem will we be effective in dealing with it.
-b- To be an advocate for these kids who often don’t have a voice speaking up for them. Many of them are too bitter to speak up for themselves and many were not given the skills to speak up. Many of them actually believe that they don’t deserve a voice and that this life of misery is a way of G-d punishing them for not being the perfect Jew.
-c- I too was just like Yussel at one point, until our teen at risk was dropped at our doorposts. Through a unique sequence events, a close relative whom needed to get away, came to stay with us for a few weeks winded up becoming a permanent resident. Over time I was able to see into a world that I didn’t know existed and see a very different perspective. Gehenim is a good way to describe it and B”H my kids (as well as us) have grown in ways that I could never imagine. It took a lot of work on a lot of people’s part, but B’H we are living in a different world that I could never hope of being. (This relative is now stable, actively involved with my kids as a “positive” role model, completing his education and looking to take it to the next level where he will be in the position to help others)
OK, now to deal with your last post.
As I wrote my last post I tried very hard from putting the “blame” on anyone in particular. This whole Teen-off-the-derech is a very complex situation with many factors that could be the cause. As far as responsibility I’m a big believer that as parents we are the first layer of defense and have the responsibility to either shield our kids from bad things or to give them the skills to cope when life hands you lemons. Many times parents are not to blame for when their kids go off the Derech. There are (some) authority figures out there, who mean well, but are destroying children non-the-less. Sometimes it is a matter of actively feeding a all or nothing derech / approach, sometimes it’s by sitting back and letting injustice being done (like when a kid is being bullied or called shvartzah because his darker skin, or shegetz because he played with cats in the street). However, it is only the parent who would be able to pick up their children’s subtle cries for help in their youth way before it spirals into something unimaginable years later. (I also mention that in this day and age, parents are working harder and sometimes are not able to see the signs) However, to get back to the point, we need to identify where things were “disconnected” so that the individual can cope and bring closure to that aspect of their life.
Do I think that our cultural “victim” mentality is blinding us as well as our youth from taking responsibility (for things on this magnitude) ? NO I don’t. At what age do you consider a youth to be grown up enough to do this? There is a reason why we are not held responsible for the big averos until we are 20. There is a reason why society doesn’t allow teens (regardless of their physical size or intelligence) the right, to drive, vote, join the army or drink and now even smoke.
Before I go on I would like to divide this into two categories of responsibility and explain why these kids off the derech would have trouble with both.
First off is the responsibility between them and Hashem (as well as acceptance of religion). First off, as mentioned earlier, the mitzvohs/spiritual obligations are not given to us to be fun. There will be times when it will be hard and inconvenient. Still, they were given to us to make us into better people and to bring us closer to Hashem. However, this would only be affective when the individual can feel the growth or positive happening with in themselves. If kids are given a diet of dry meaningless rules of which they must follow or else, what incentive or motivation will there be to follow? Kids by nature want to fit in, and when they start becoming independent, what is going to happen when they feel nothing positive towards religion? When would anyone under the circumstance be able to grow up and get with it? There is no free will in this circumstance. The beauty and value of Yiddishkeit was not given effectively and thus there is no balance to make the person want to follow in these ways.
Then there is the responsibility towards the family or just being a mentch. Most of the behaviors that we possess are a mixture of our natural dispositions as well as the environment that we were raised in. (The whole nature vs. nurture aspect) When a teen wishes to not follow the rules of the house you have to identify what exactly the child is doing when the rules are being broken. Is the outburst a result of a larger temper tantrum given so that they can get their way or is it the result of many years of frustration or lack of stability that is causing this outburst. The parents have the right as well as the responsibility to establish and enforce the rules of the home (as well as religion) as they see fit. However, sechel/proper judgment must be used to make sure that the consequence (positive/nagative) is appropriate to the action as well as the means of enforcement are practical. For example, teen girl comes to table dressed in appropriately. On one hand this is your home, your table, and your comfort zone, so you have a right demand how people should be dressed. On the other side, religion doesn’t mean much in the area of Tznius to this girl, and she feels that she has the right to express herself (in her mode of dress) , so she feels wronged in being asked to accommodate her life choices to appeal to others. As a grown up, the parents are in the right and that is too bad. However, reality sets in and we have to ask of this is the battle that we are willing to loose everything on for? So what does a parent do, and honestly I don’t know. But what I do know is that this “battle” is the tip of an ice burg of a war of issues. This is when the alarm goes off that says you need to communicate and get outside help. This is where you can sit down with this girl, establish a compromise that meets both parties. You also need to find out why she needs to dress like this.
Now what about that aidel Bais Yaakov sister who feels like she doesn’t have a home to come to? Well, I want to be mean for a second (for shock value and to give a little insight to what her sister has faced from others) but my answer to her is that, as a good Bais Yaakov girl she should have learned that before we were born all of our problems that we would have to face in our lifetimes were shown to us. It is through these challenges that we become bigger and better people and this is one of those challenges. Plus, after all was said and done, we all agreed to undertake this mission and accepted it. So, my young girl, this is really your problem and you will just have to deal with it. (OK take a breath now & digest)
Reality: How unfair is it for me to say what I just did? What skills did I give over to her to either grow or effectivly deal with the sitution? The bottom line is that you are right Yussel that this girl-off-the-derech’s sister has a right to feel comfortable in her home. However, we need to understand that the rules that we have to follow are not going to be the same for everyone. Fairness is going to be different depending on the circumstances. I could suggest a few ideas that will allow both girls to have their say but it is something that needs to be addressed as a family in a calm environment. The teen off the derech needs a means to clarify why she doesn’t feel as a part of the family and why she needs to rebel and the teen who is affected needs to express her needs and desires and maybe the uncomfortable situtaion this creates, so that they (or an outside arbitrator) can make a compromise and game plan for both sides. What this might mean is switching days when they have friends over. This might mean having two entrances and places for their friends. I can’t tell you not knowing the dynamics or facts. Yet this is a lesson for both of them of how two opposite oppinions can find common ground.
Last I agree that off the derech can’t always be an emotional issue. There are times when a consistent exposure to things outside the norm that will erode our foundation and escalate from there. However I have yet to see a “teen” who went off the derech because of this alone. The free will of a healthy teen, would still be held in check because of the fear of his parents and their reaction to it. Later on, when he/she is on their own, then free will would dictate a possible break.