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Joseph: “Many people claim that they see with their own own eyes and/or experience that toeiva “marriages” are “successful couples” where the so-called “marriage” works.”
Wolf: “Really??? You’re comparing a marriage of the type we’re discussing to a homosexual marriage? You think that they’re both the same???”
Wolf, he wasn’t comparing them in the sense that you mean. He was simply trying to prove that the argument that one could have a good marriage w/o following the Torah’s dictates is not a proof that it is the right way to do things.
It’s similar to the way the (Mishna? Gemara) lists the issur of walking between 2 women together with the issur of walking between 2 dogs. It doesn’t mean that women are comparable to dogs. It just means that they both fall in the same category in terms of not being supposed to walk between them.
He is right in a sense. But my counter argument would have been that the two are not comparable for the following reason: The Torah dictates that are being quoted regarding marriage are: a) not D’oraisa as far as I know, and I don’t think they are even D’Rabbanan, and I don’t think someone is being over an issur by not doing things this way
b) my understanding (although I could be wrong) is that the point of these dictates IS to have a good marriage, so if someone has a good marriage not doing things this way, it would seem to me that they have a good point (as opposed to a toeiva “marriage” where we couldn’t care less if they have a good marriage or not and that is not the reason for the issur).