Reply To: Zionism, Apikorsos?

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Avi K, trying to say the chofetz chaim, the moetzes, or any of the non-aguda gedolim we not anti-Zionist is rewriting history. Their position pre-war is a matter of plain historical record.

Aguda’s position, and that of the gedolim of the prewar and post moetzes, as well as the gedolim of Degel (which includes gedolei bnei brak), and basically the entire Torah world except Satmar and Toldos AY/A and the Daati Leumi) was that the State should never have been established, but once it was established we have to work with them by voting, establishing political parties. Poloei Agudas Yisroel (???”? – originally the workers branch of aguda) was slightly more conciliatory, and eventually even had (has!) two kibbutzim — but the basic position remained the same.

That every Torah yid has always wanted to settle in EY (whether controlled by Ottomans, British, or secular Jews) cannot be bought as proof to the state.

Rav Kook is always trotted out as an example of a godol more or less supporting (Religious) Zionism, but actually he was about the only rov of that stature who did. the Satmar Rov Rav Yoelish was also indisputably a godol batorah but very few ascribe to his position on the State (much less what some in Satmar have turned it into).

I have the greatest of respect for the daati leumi and their rabbonim, but it saddens me that many DL with excuse the grossest excesses of the state and throw chareidim under a bus because of the debate over the mitzvah of yeshivas eretz yisroel, when there is much more that unites us than divides us including 99% of Torah and mitzvos.

Look around most Israeli cities and tell me – in your own layman’s opinion, whether you can truly claim the open peritzus, toevah, and entire secular nature (exemplified by much of the Army culture, for instance) is what rotzon hashem is r”l.