Gavra-at-work: “Where is the Aveirah of voting for Meretz? Does this tie into “following the Gedolim”? Wouldn’t that be an additional qualification?”
I think it would be “not following the Gedolim” which is part of being Shomer Torah and Mitzvos.
I was almost hoping you would go there.
1: Following the “Gedolim” is an absolute qualification for being a Chareidi.
2: Included in “following the Gedolim” is voting Gimmel, as the Gedolim have told us that we must vote Gimmel.
Hence
3: Anyone who did not vote Gimmel is not a Chareidi.
Or
3: One may have different Gedolim than you (ex. Satmar Rov, Rav Avital, Rav Meir Stern, Rav Fuerst, etc. etc.) and still be a Chareidi. If their Gadol doesn’t tell them for whom to vote, they may vote Meretz (or Labor, NRP, etc.).”
1. I never said that “anyone who doesn’t vote Gimmel is not Chareidi”. As you yourself pointed out, there are Gedolim who say to vote for other parties. I voted Shas one year.
2. I don’t think there are any Gedolim who say to vote for Meretz.
GAW: “This assumes that having the Gedolim tell people from whom to vote is not a new “movement”. Gantz Shayach it is, as ubiquitin said earlier.”
Finally, people are giving an intelligent reason to consider Chareidiism a new movement!
I disagree, since I don’t think it is a new idea that we listen to Gedolim when it comes to these types of matters, but at least that was an intelligent argument!!
Now we have to start the debate on “Daas Torah”, what it means and whether or not it is a new concept. But I don’t have time or energy now.
To be continued….