GAW: “L’maase, you were quoting someone quoting Rav Moshe, you did not (yet) look it up inside. It may be worth your while (as you seem to agree) to assume that the person (even if a Talmid Chacham) quoting does so selectively at best, or with and agenda. Look at the sources yourself and come to your own conclusion”
I agree that it is always best to look things up inside. I do think though that there is a very big difference between someone “quoting” a source, and actually bringing the source. Rav Ellinson brings the actual sources. While it may be somewhat preferable to actually look up the sources myself, I don’t think it’s THAT different. It is like going to a shiur where they bring source sheets as opposed to actual Sefarim. It is certainly not in the same category as quoting someone who is simply quoting a source (or cutting and pasting from Frumteens, whatever that is).
I also do tend to trust Rav Ellinson, because he is someone who brings sources and does bring a variety of opinions, and doesn’t simply say things like, “All the Gedolim say…” like some Sefarim do, without listing sources or even explaining who exactly “all the Gedolim” are.
That being said, I do think it’s preferable to look things up myself if possible, but I have no problem trusting R’ Ellinson’s sources until such time as I am able to find the sources myself.
GAW: “LUL – You do have the more difficult task.”
Actually, the reason that I have the more difficult task is that it’s harder for me to get ahold of sefarim since I can’t just walk into a shul and use their Sefarim, my own Sefarim collection is limited, and half my Sefarim are in the US.
“Many Rishonim and Achronim quote others as support for their shittos, and when you look inside the actual source, they said no such thing.”
I have a problem with this statement. If you are talking about someone contemporary, I could understand it. But I have a hard time seeing how you can claim to understand a source better than a Rishon.
“Finally, I’m glad that you agree that 4 inches is not Halacha. A certain “Rabbi” supposedly put out a letter that wearing a skirt that is less that 4 inches below the knee is just as Assur (“no less forbidden”) as eating Treif or going mixed swimming.”
IF it IS true that it is impossible for a skirt to fully cover one’s knees in any position unless it is at least 4 inches below the knees, then that statement is correct. As I said, I have never measured a skirt and I have no idea how much 4 inches is. But it does make sense that it may be the case.
I think most people don’t realize that if you want to make sure that your knees never show, then your skirts really do need to be way below your knees. The main thing that bothers me about those kinds of statements is that girls are misled into thinking that if their skirts are 4 inches, they are fine, and they may not be.
I guess the reason people got into the 4 inches thing in the first place was because girls thought they were fine if their skirts covered their knees in the front while they are standing still. Many people nowadays are not sensitive enough to know how to figure out if something is tznius unless they are given a measurement that can be measured with a ruler instead of using their seichel.
Personally, I have more of an issue with the idea that your skirts can’t be too long, and I plan to start a movement on behalf of long skirts. Halevei that everyone should wear long skirts, imho!
“It is critical to know what is Halacha, Chumra and Geder.”
Maskim 100%! I am a big believer in that.
“Being Dan L’Kaf Zechus, I assume the letter is a forgery, but some people really do think as such.”
I saw a letter on a busstop recently that someone had written to R’ Chaim about the fact that the high school his daughter wants to go to said they will only accept her if she starts wearing shorter skirts (I think that means not longer than mid-calf or something like that). R’ Chaim said that chalila she should wear shorter skirts even if she won’t get into high school.
When I told a Rav I know about this, he laughed and said that these letters are usually forgeries (he agrees with the idea that long skirts are a problem).
“I do not know Rav Ellinson (from whose sefer you quoted), but I will be Dan L’Kaf Zechus that he brings down both shittos.”
He actually does, but he brings the other as a minority opinion, and my impression was that there are no contemporary Poskim who hold that way.
That is the main issue I have with the sources you are quoting. While I am happy to do more research and look up these sources (as soon as I can get ahold of them), at the end of the day, if no contemporary Poskim hold that way, it is irrelevant what the Beis Yosef or other Rishonim say. There are many opinions in the Rishonim that we don’t go by, and the fact that someone can find a support in a Rishon for a certain action does not make it okay.
In fact, I have been wondering if that is the issue with OO and Avi Weiss. I would imagine that Avi Weiss is not the type to do something out of nowhere without finding a source. I thought that the issue might be that one can’t just find their own sources and posken against all the contemporary Gedolim. That is why Daas Torah is such a critical component of Torah Hashkafa. The entire halacha system is based on it.