“We are not arguing on giving a kvittel to the Rebbe. The specific definition of “betten the Rebbe” that you are using is not what we are discussing. It is assigning “yachol hakol” powers, making requests of him directly”
I just brought you an example of Belzer Mosdos advocating that you can make requests directly from The Belzer Rebbe, and that through your connection to him, and his connection to God, you are more likely to experience yeshuos and have your requests fulfilled. Any chossid of The Belzer Rebbe will relate to this as having had a personal experience with The Belzer Rebbe where the Rebbe through his Tzidkus was able to effect things in shamayim that the person himself could not have otherwise accomplished through just his own relationship to God.
Ironically, something you wrote is exactly the answer to the question you are asking. “Any salvation they bring is Gds doing” That is gufa why it is not a problem to make requests from The Rebbe and is not God forbid an intermediary or a shutif or whatever. The Rebbe is just a tool of God in the world. The Aibishter is a kol yachol and he uses tzaddikim as a way of interacting with the world and with people. Any salvation is purely God’s doing.
” Nobody would ever say the words, “let me tell you about some personal experiences I have had with the Rebbe” when referring to a rebbe who died before they were born.”
Let me tell you about some personal experiences I have had with Rabbi Yosef Karo and Rabbi Moshe Isserles. I cannot explain to you the countless times per every single day that things came up and I was absolutely unsure what to do with myself, but after consulting their holy words and sage counsel I was able to fulfill myriads of positive commandments and avoid myriads of transgressions.
I don’t see the ultimate relevance of your point, but in the spirit of having passed Shabbos Mevarchim Chodesh Elul please find my comment at least in good humor if you do not accept the point I am trying to make.
I know a man who thinks he can connect to God through making a series of motions with his arms and a pair of inanimate objects. Surely this seems like Avoda Zara? Don’t we believe as Jews that we connect directly to God without the necessity of any intermediary? Yet many people consider this man to be a frum Jew. First he takes a leather box and he winds a leather strap around his arm 7 times. Then he takes another leather box and he affixes it to his forehead and moves it back and forth until it settles directly in the center. He then proceeds to whisper all sorts of incantations from a book while swaying and bowing and genuflecting. How can we let such a machla enter Klal Yisroel. Vehaya Machanecha Kadosh. You don’t need leather boxes and straps to connect to God. Whoops.
I don’t think CS is guilty of anything other than being in way over her head.
As far as discussing if The Rebbe is someone who can be relied upon to vouch for himself I am comfortable in trusting Harav Hagaon R’ Moshe Feinstein who addressed The Lubavitcher Rebbe as HaGaon HaTzaddik in writing. I.E. Harav Hagain R’ Moshe held that The Lubavitcher Rebbe was both learned and morally upright.