Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › when’s the last time for kiddush levanah? › Reply To: when’s the last time for kiddush levanah?
“Your latest dissertation has added nothing to my already perfectly complete understanding of everything you have been saying”
This is demonstrably false.
You said “Thus leap seconds do not, as you seem to think, adjust the natural mean solar time to conform with some arbitrary scale that the scientists came up with”
I in no way implied or said that and in fact said the opposite. The molad and the time used to calculate it has not changed. Our clocks have. OR as you put it exactly right
” it adjusts the arbitrary fixed second to conform with mean solar time.”
In other words your clock now reads a different time than that used to calculate the molad.
There are already many differences between your clock and the clock used for the molad, this is but one more.
Now to go through your mimah nifshach
“If the factors affecting the rotation of the earth do not affect the molad to molad time, which remains a fixed 2551443.3 seconds of fixed length…”
Again the molad time remains constant it doesnt change. The time of the molad does not depend on time zones, standard time or leap seconds
I dont understand your other tzad.
Again the time of the molad doesnt change. But the time on our clock does.
Perhaps this will help you out.
Let me know where I lose you.
step 1. The molad occured Wed eve 6:05 7 chelakim.
step 2. you have 14 days 18 hours and 396.5 chalakim later to say kidush hachodesh which means that (before the advent of standard time) you can say it until Thursday afternoon 12:27:25
step 3a. The above time doesnt change just becasue your clock changes. In other words you cant just wake up Thursday night when your clock says say 6 PM turn the hour hand back 6 hours and say great I still have 27 minutes to ay kiddush levana. In other words the time on your clock doesnt matter it is the relative time since the molad.
still with me?
step 3b if you set your watch 5 minutes later so that when your watch reads 12:27:25 it really is 12:22:25. Then when your watch reads 12:27:25 you still have 5 minutes
step 3c if the government changes the time to 5 minutes later (or 20 minutes 56.5 seconds earlier). Once again that has no bearing on the “real time” you have for kiddush levana which is stilll 12:27:25 Thursday afternnon based on natural local time. Only that your watch wont say that it will say 12:06:28
I’m failry certain you are with me to a certain extent so far.
Finally
step 4 If regulatory bodies change the time to 27 seconds later (regardless of their motive , or how accurate they are). The n again, exactly as in 3a, b, c. The time that the molad occurs doesnt change the mean solar time at which yo uhave to stop kiddush levana doesnt change. But at that same natural local time of 12:27:25 your clock will read 12:27:57 (I’m sorry if I had that backwards earlier)
Thus just like you have to subtract time zones, change to standard time, extra minutes you added to your clock display for any reason whatsoever. You would also subtract extra seconds added to your clock by you or anyone else.
I double checked Rabbi Heber’s sefer shaarei zemanim and on page 22 footnote 3 he says what I have been trying to explain to you. (though not in detail )
You end by saying “So to recap, leap seconds are irrelevant, either we are three hours out..”
I’m worrying that we are talking about different things (although yo u claim to have “perfectly complete understanding of everything you have been saying.”) I am not at all discussing the accuracy of the molad. Not in the slightest.