Reply To: Why does it seem we downplay winning the battle?

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#1639186
ubiquitin
Participant

akuperma
1. Source please. The Gemara does note Hashem criticizing the malachim for saying shirah. But we do in fact say shira during Pesach (albeit “half-Hallel”) I don’t know of an ysource where Hashem criticises us
(also why the dash in Hashem?)

2. ” Most of the “Greeks” were OTD Yidden.”
source please. The Greek army was defeated in many battles I am not aware of any source that says the Greek soldiers who fought at BeisTzur, Emaus , Beis Choron where “mostly” OTD yidden

” Note the many parts of the “al ha-Nissim” that only make sense if you assume they were Jews”
Yet we DO say Al Hanissim, celebrating said victory

3. Were periods end is subjective the war was won and an independent Jewish state was established, as the Rambam says “וגברו בני חשמונאי הכהנים הגדולים והרגום והושיעו ישראל מידם והעמידו מלך מן הכהנים וחזרה מלכות לישראל יתר על מאתים שנים עד החורבן השני”
now while it wasn’t fully independent for the full 200 years independence was achieved until 69 BCE when Pompey and the Romans were invited to mediate in the chashmonai civil war.

Though perhaps what you mean is that this “victory” was not one chazal wanted to glorify and this is probably true given that the chashmonai leadership after the first generation was questionable at best .
Though the main reason is probably anonymous Jew’s, the two arent necessarily contradictory.

The truth though is there are many aspects to all these things and different generations or even locales emphasize the part that speaks most to them.
The current “Chanukah theme” in my circles is how Chanukah celebrates Torah or more specifically Torah shel Bal Peh , this is’nt mentioned in the Gemara, nor Rishonim (as far as I’m aware I would generally appreciate an early source to this end)
Another example Shavuos went from “Chag Hakatzir” in the time of Tanach to Zman Matan toroseinu during the time of Chazal to Chag Hagevina in some Israel circles today. different times/cultures always put emphasis on different aspects (not that all are necessarily equally valid)
Yet another example Purim. Iv’e been to shmuzin contrasting how Purim is salvation of guf over chanuka’s spiritual salvation .(I assume we all have). I have also been to shmuzin emphasizing the “kimu vikiblu” message of Purim as a time to reaffirm a comitment to Torah. Is this a contradiction? Of course not!