Ubiq
I keep going back to punishment because that was my original question.
I never claimed these are “good ” activities.
I am saying that one can see how the Torah views the severity of the bad deed from the proscribed punishment. (usually).
Next
“Having gone to a mainstream yeshiva, you must have encountered the chazal that there are mitzvos known to man without the Torah. It’s a gemara, Rashi brings it in Chumash. Are you familiar with this? Do you need chapter and verse.?”
Mitzvos ? No I’m not familiar with it. Help me out.
Middos yes.
So is it wrong for a non Jew to do such a thing? Of course. Just like its wrong for him to spit in someone’s face.
That’s why I keep going back to the question of punishment, and perhaps why you keep jumping back to “is it wrong ” cause that’s an easy answer. But I never asked that. I’m not discussing that cause I agree.
Phil, yes I know. You’ll notice though that you are only able to bring from the last generation or so. Do you really believe that In the history of our nation there were no molesters until 1945?
So where is all the responsa about it?
The answer is, that even they are not making a new classification called molesters. They are stating the current fact. In today’s World a molested child has a high rate of suicide….. Therefore a molester is a rodef. Were it to be true that a victim of a home invasion were to have the same reactions, then they would also be a rodef (besides “ba bamachteres where applicable) it’s not special to a molester.
Rockstar, I don’t believe you can punish a one time molester based On the fact that he will probably become a repeat offender. I think unfortunately one would need to wait before acting against him as a repeat offender. (that’s just my opinion nothing to back it up)
As far as a king, absolutely but remember for most of our history we haven’t had a king and it is actually looked down upon us when we asked for one. So that can’t really be the utopian ideal of taking care of issues.
Phil no I’d imagine a person in that situation would be aghast. That doesn’t mean I could kill the guy. Much as I’d imagine anyone in such a position would want to.
Grey matter, I never said any such thing. The Gemmara specifically discusses all those things why would I be so stupid as to say otherwise. I spoke about the punishment.
But the Torah would not allow it.
(don’t get into punishment as a deterrent, half the posters opposing me here vehemently disagree with such corrupt thought. I happen to agree)
Ubiq your second post was posted before I had a chance to respond but I think I responded to it