Reply To: Can the severity of a sin be learned from the severity of the punishment?

Ubiq

during our previous discussion if I had asked you wahts worse Lashon harah or Lying. You would have said (I assume) they are equal since the punishment for the two is the same .

No. לשה”ר is much worse. It gets צרעת. Lying doesn’t get any עונש on this world

So which is worse גסות הרוח or neveila?
גסות הרוח.
Besides the צרעת
אין אני והוא יכולים לגור במקום אחד is said on a גס רוח whereas on a בעל עבירה –כי אני ה שוכן אותם בתוך טומאותם

where does talking to a single girl rank in terms of onesh?
.nowhere. there is no general איסור to talk to a single girl.
In his specific instance, he was beyond love struck. His talking to her was just a cover to having a mental connection to her. Ie. Fulfill his fantasy. In that case חזל said it’s אבוזריהו דארייות ויהרג ועל יעבור

So I ask you what is a worse aveira nivul hameis or chilul shabbos?
what is the onesgh for each?
This one seems so easy you must have a trick up your sleeve.
חילול שבת-סקילה is much worse
ניבול המת I’m not sure there is any עונש down here for it.

I found the mekor

It is a Maharsha Sanhedrin 64: Inn chidishei halachos

I did not mean the מקור of the idea that the crime is so severe it can’t be punished because it can’t be allowed to be cleansed so “easily ”
That I am well aware of.
I meant that if one sins with a married women there is a punishment, equals cleansing, but if she is single there is none. That would make according to your logic, sinning with a single girl vastly worse than sinning with a married women.
That is the position for which I cannot fathom the logic.

Isnt this line of the Mahrsha “אין לדון כן לענין עונש דאימא זה שעשה עבירה החמורה מזו אינו מתכפר בעונש המפורש בקלה” An explicit rayah to my position namely: That the more severe punishment does not necesarily indicate it is a more severe aveira ?

Not at all. What he is clearly and explicitly saying is that YOU cannot DECIDE that x crime, being as it. Worse than y crime, should certainly get the punishment that y a crime gets. Reason being, that the punishment cleanses, and who are you to decide that x sin can be cleansed with such a light weight punishment
(BTW another way to phrase it would be, x sin needs a more severe punishment because it’s a more severe sin. You can’t give such a light punishment to such a severe sin. Exactly my point)
But when the punishment is spelled out, where do you see in these lines that you can’t see the severity of the sin from the severity of the punishment?

To be clear, I’m obviously not saying it can NEVER be learnt from the onesh. Just that it can’t always be learnt from the onesh

Well well well
Once you go there we are not really arguing anymore.
As I would defiantly admit that there are exceptions.
So In essence the following statement would be a true expression of my opinion.

To be clear, I’m obviously not saying it can ALWAYS be learnt from the onesh. Just that it usually is a correct indicator.

Not all that different than your position once you phrase it that way.
It just becomes a question of approach
I assume the punishment is a barometer of severity unless told otherwise,
You assume, what? That it’s random? Just a Hodge podge of punishments randomly assigned to sins? Help me out here.

furthermore you got me to rethin another position, that is tangentially related to this, namely does every halachic position need “proof” or are some obvious.

Many are obvious, and don’t really NEED proof.
But they must all be provable