Home › Forums › Controversial Topics › Any of the 2020 DNC Presidential candidates 100% against abortion (aka murder)? › Reply To: Any of the 2020 DNC Presidential candidates 100% against abortion (aka murder)?
please explain to me why are socialists evil who help the needy.
Because they don’t help the needy, they steal from other people to help the needy. Or just stam, because they don’t think people should be rich.
The rich should pay more because they use the benefits of the country more because they have more to lose.
The top 20 percent of households pay 88 percent of federal income taxes. They certainly don’t get anything even remotely approaching 88% of the benefits. The top one percent pay 40%; you can’t claim they get 40% of the benefit.
They are not all criminals who are separated from their families.
Yes, they are all criminals. They all entered the country illegally, which is a crime for which they are arrested.
If they are illegal, then the whole family is illegal.
The children have not committed any crime. And under the Flores consent decree they can’t be kept in custody for more than 20 days. In any case you can’t have it both ways; you can’t complain both about children being in custody and about children being separated from their criminal parents when the parents are arrested.
The cases where abortion is necessary to save the mother’s life are extremely rare; almost to the point of nonexistence.
At least seven children are known to have died in immigration custody since last year, after almost a decade in which no child reportedly died while in the custody of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
And who is suggesting that the government is responsible for these deaths? Nobody. It’s a ridiculous idea. Every one of those children died because they were sick, and they didn’t become sick in custody. They just happened to be in custody when their time came. And of course there are more of them now than 10 years ago, because in case you haven’t noticed we now have hordes of invaders crossing the border, including children, which we didn’t have before..
Ah simpelton*, but what if the baby isnt attacking the mother? What if cancer is attacking the mother and chemo would kill the baby.
In such a case you are not killing the baby, you are treating the mother. The baby’s death is an unfortunate side-effect, which you very much don’t want, but have to accept because life is cruel. Psik reisha delo nicha leih. In such a case even lehavdil the Catholic church permits it. And there is certainly nobody in the pro-life movement proposing that it be banned.
My point is WHO should decide You? the state legislature? congress? Or the patient and their Rabbi?
The same people whose job is to decide whether any killing is justified. The legislature to set standards, and the courts to determine whether they apply in a particular case.
It is not possible for the exact same act to be murder when a nochri does it and not murder when a yisroel does it. Murder is murder, regardless of who is doing it. The penalties may be different, but the act is the same.
how cheap can human life be to you that mass murders are “normal”
Murder is normal. Given a certain population size, you are going to have a certain number of murders. And different demographics are going to commit murder at different rates. After adjusting for demographics the US murder rate is lower than in many western countries. And mass murder is so rare that it’s a statistical blip. It’s impossible to tell whether it’s falling or rising, because the sample size is so small.
The Torah is not at all socialist. It does not oppose ribbis; on the contrary, lanochri tashich, and nochrim are expected to charge each other interest too. We Yisre’elim are not to charge each other interest not because it’s somehow wrong but because we’re supposed to treat each other like family, and you don’t charge family interest. It’s a subset of the mitzvah of ahavas yisroel. The obligation to give tzedokah is also a subset of ahavas yisroel. There is no mitzvah to give to nochrim, and if you do give you get no sachar for it, because there’s no mitzvah to love them. Nor are they expected to love one another, so they too get no sachar for giving each other tzedakah. The same applies to that whole set of mitzvos; this is not the normal moral standard of how we’re to treat people; on the contrary, the idea is that we are to treat our fellow Yisre’elim BETTER than standard, to do them favors we would not do for a normal person, because they’re not normal people, they’re our own flesh and blood.
What right do we have to tell our host country what their laws should or shouldn’t be?
Are you crazy? We have the right and duty to tell the whole world what is right and what is wrong.
The Torah also forbids killing (unless in exceptional circumstances, like the death penalty,
Stop right there. The Torah supports and requires the death penalty. One of the seven mitzvos is dinim; the nations are REQUIRED to enforce the other six laws with the death penalty. And part of Losheves Yetzoroh is a particular requirement to enforce it in the case of murder and robbery. And no, the court is not supposed to try to exonerate a murderer. On the contrary, “the earth cannot be forgiven for the blood spilled on it, except by the spiller’s blood”. Even among Yisre’elim the batei din must be supplemented with the king’s courts, which make sure murderers don’t live to murder others. For nochrim there are no procedural barriers at all.
I think that’s enough for now.