@lakewhut What you are describing is called in English “stealing from the government” and in Loshon HaKodesh “G’neivas Akum”. Like I said to the other guy, I’m not mekabel that such things happen on a large enough basis to affect reported income levels. That’s pure Lashon Horah.
@aviradearah What you’re saying is that even in the Yeshivish interpretations of the German mehalech, secular studies are needed for both Torah and parnoso. Let’s just stop there. The controversy of Rav Hirsch was not that he encouraged secular studies, but that he encouraged it more than other Rabbonim felt necessary. No Litvish post-war institution up until the last 20 or 30 years said that Gemara-only is the mehalech for boys after they’re Bar Mitzvah. That mehalech is wrong and we are seeing it now with less and less men able to make a parnoso or interact with the world as necessary. Who will fight the government when they come after Yeshivos if the next generation can’t even talk to goyim in a way that they can understand?
@ujm I don’t understand your point. If some goy wants to spend all of his time and money getting a useless degree and rely on his and his non-gender-specific-significant-other low paying job to afford their life, that’s his prerogative. However, if a Yid chooses to live in a lifestyle that forbids his wife from holding a job, and forbids him from working for more than 50k annually, without being mevatel pirya v’rivya, that is also his choice. But the fact remains that such a life is impossible without massive amount of support from people who do not live such a life. And it should not fall as a burden to the oilom to support such an individual. Forget Yisochar/Zevulum, that involves supporting a person who shows that he is capable of sitting and learning his whole life, not supporting entire communities to raise their children teaching them tiflus. As Yidden we need a basic understanding of how the world works along with math and sciences. If you want to say the only reason is for parnoso, then fine! But it’s still absolutely necessary!
To all of you: The current education trends in the frum community are a very real danger. They go against the Torah and are setting us up to have to rely on open miracles to survive. This is absolutely a bigger problem then whatever it is that has you guys all worked up about Modern Orthodox philosophy or whatever.