n0mesorah,
“I wasn’t retreating. I was thinking about the fallout to the yeshiva scene in general. As we got more specific (I don’t know why you think a specific story would prove or disprove a movement.) I focused more on this one yeshiva.”
You brought the specific story into this discussion as a proof of the evils of the “anti-tech” movement, not me. I asked some specific questions about the story because not everything you wrote was clear or made sense, and your response has been to pull back into more generalized statements that have already been made. And the specifics that were pried out seem to indicate that this example story is an outlier (e.g., even the anti-tech advocates say this yeshiva messed up), and what actual harm was caused remains unclear.
My statement still stands.”
Your approach to this debate has been to throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks. I still do not understand what your reasoning is. Our impasse seems to be:
n0mesorah – leave me alone about my smartphone, because I learn better than you and spend my time better than you.
Avram in MD – you are likely a rare exception to the rule. Smartphones are addictive by design, and purposely throw unsolicited content at users.
n0mesorah – learning is the metric of success, and bitul zman is the measure of failure. So stop talking about smartphones and tell people to learn more and waste time less.
Avram in MD – bitul zman is greatly exacerbated by smartphones by design, and furthermore it is only one of the dangers of smartphones. They present a serious spiritual danger.
n0mesorah – advocating for people to get rid of or filter their smartphones is a spiritual danger. Just look at what happened at Yeshiva X! The fallout was horrible. (we had a round 1 circuit involving kids jumping into drugs and violence just because meanies took their phones, but the course of discussion was similar).
Avram in MD – what happened at Yeshiva X?
n0mesorah – learning is the metric of success, and bitul zman is the measure of failure. So stop talking about smartphones and tell people to learn more and waste time less.
Avram in MD – no really, what happened?
n0mesorah – they killed a half dozen bachurim!
Avram in MD – what happened?
n0mesorah – lots of complaining and bad feelings and logistical inconvenience and teachers being mean. Even the anti-tech advocates say this yeshiva messed up!
Avram in MD – ok, it does sound like they were inconsiderate in how they implemented the policy. But how were the bochrim permanently harmed?
n0mesorah – I mean the yeshiva system was harmed. Teachers don’t listen to their students anymore.
Avram in MD – that’s not what we were talking about.
n0mesorah – learning is the metric of success, and bitul zman is the measure of failure. So stop talking about smartphones and tell people to learn more and waste time less.
“Instead of just saying don’t get caught up in today’s nisayon (phone addiction), tell them what they can achieve instead (growth in Torah).”
Are we talking about the same species here? That’s simply not how human beings work. Somebody should tell Hashem how much time He wasted (chas v’shalom) repeatedly saying to not get caught up in the nisayon of avodah zara, arayos, etc. The Torah could have been a much shorter and more positive book! I know so many people, myself included, who know they can achieve great things, but let nisayonos get in the way. What you are advocating puts a stumbling block in front of the blind.