Reply To: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher Reply To: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher

#2214137
n0mesorah
Participant

I’ll post it again for this page.
Maybe somebody on this site wants to learn.

At this point, I do not want to associate my yeshiva background with some of the posters on this thread. To me, it was about learning. Not denying what this one or that one learned. Some people know nothing. Rather they spent their entire time in beis medrash trying to “prove” that the other derech is wrong. It never dawns on them, that you have to learn things different ways to then select the better way. If you always “learn” one way, then you don’t realize that all the proofs you bring are only according to that one way. And someone who learns differently, has no idea why you think you are proving anything.

Nevuah is not a Lubavitch concept. I have no knowledge of what the Rebbe said or wrote on the topic. I do know that the claim that there is absolutely no prophecy in the present day is absurd and is only possible with a very superficial reading of the sources.

I once had the opportunity to learn through the topic with a Talmid Chochom. I’m just going to give the classic sources that have been alluded to here. We are disgracing all ancestors by rabble rousing without learning anything. If we would go back in time, our hashkafa would be meaningless to them. Because the fact that we don’t actually learn, will cast us as laughingstock.

The original beraisa about the the End of the Neviim is in Midrash Chazisa. Note, that it talks about Ruach Hakodesh and not Nevuah.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14384&st=&pgnum=324

The context is the spiritual lost opportunities of the destruction of the Bais Hamikdash. It is clear in the discourse that these opportunities do not completely disappear.

Based on this, it is included in the Tosefta on Sotah. This is the correct context for where we lost our greatness throughout the generations.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14307&st=&pgnum=562

However, the Yerushalmi there brings the story as a saying in the name of Reb Yehoshua be Levi. It does not mention the statement that Ruach Hakodesh stopped.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14142&st=&pgnum=587

It is also brought in Y. A”Z (beginning of ch. 3) on how they were great enough to influence their surroundings.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14136&st=&pgnum=616

And in Y. Horayos (end of ch. 3) in relation to the greatness of chachomim.

https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14136&st=&pgnum=694

The Bavli in Sanhedrin 11a is in the same vein. (Specifically, to the chachomim that deliberated on the months and years.)

https://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=24&daf=11&format=pdf

And the Gemara in Yoma 9b is about the opportunities provided by the existence of the Bais Hamikdash and lost in their destruction. This is the closest to the original found in the Midrash.

https://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=6&daf=9&format=pdf

In all of these sources, it mentions using Ruach Hakodesh on events that were at the end of; or even after the Second Temple. And well after Neviim Acharonim. Nothing about Nevuah and it clearly was still in use. The concept of using the Bas Kol seems like something they did with some regularity.

The Gemara that calls Chaggai, Zechariah, Malachi, the end of Neviim, clearly mens the last written books. See Rashi.
B”B 14a https://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=23&daf=14b&format=pdf

Here the Gemara discusses actual prophecy. The point is that it is still in existence if one cares to look for it.
B”B 12 a & b https://hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=23&daf=12&format=pdf

People quote the Rambam that there is no more prophecy. It’s a misquote from Yesodei Hatorah 9:2
כְּמוֹ שֶׁאָמַר הָאַחֲרוֹן שֶׁבָּהֶן followed by a pasuk from Malachi. This is the same as the Rashi above. There is more nuance if one learns the whole perek.

Incidentally, they also use the wrong Rambam as a source that Moshiach will be a Navi.
The Rambam in Teshuva 9:2 is explicit:
מִפְּנֵי שֶׁאוֹתוֹ הַמֶּלֶךְ שֶׁיַּעֲמֹד מִזֶּרַע דָּוִד בַּעַל חָכְמָה יִהְיֶה יֶתֶר מִשְּׁלֹמֹה וְנָבִיא גָּדוֹל הוּא קָרוֹב לְמשֶׁה רַבֵּנוּ.

The idea that we preserved these abilities and can still access them is a mainstream one. Everybody should be all in on it.

Here is a famous Divrei Chaim that accepting the Gedolei Yisroel is to realize that they have Ruach Hakodesh. Yoreh Dayah II 105
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=913&st=&pgnum=3