@sensibleyid “theres something to chochmas yevanis other than Covid varient symbols”
Well, you did come out and say it right away. It’s that passion and desire to say it that is dangerous.
@yechiell Wow, you are smarter than chazal? I would love to meet you!
Any attempt to be “smarter” than Chazal or even mesorah is haughty. Can one truly be so foolish? Or perhaps there are ulterior motives…
@yaakov doe “I consider myself MO”
We all agree the lines are blurred. However, what you consider yourself is irrelevant, and is distracting from the conversation. You say you keep many things that most MO don’t. thats wonderful. And that’s also not what the argument is about or why there is pushback in the first place.
@DaMoshe “For me, a bachur [young man] who goes to college – that’s part of his Torah too, if we recognize that he’s going to college to make a living”
There are two (or 3) distinct reasons for a “secular education”
1. To be able to earn a living and function in this world. (one could argue if going to a secular college campus is necessary for this but that’s not this conversation)
2A To become “educated” and be respected as such by the secular world.
2B to learn for the sake of knowledge and seeing the beauty in “chochmas yivanis”
You are talking about 1. The discussion is mostly about 2 and is what many of the leaders of MO are passionate about.
“Secular studies” may have its benefits. However, when made equal to or greater than the Torah in importance that’s a problem. I wrote two examples above of what you might hear people from these groups say. Here is a third: “the Torahs response to…”
1. The Torah does not respond to anyone
2. The very conversation makes it seems like there is a conversation about equating the Torah to secular. Even if that sentence finishes with “but of course the Torah is central”.
And again, where does all this passion for “secular studies” stem from…
Why the consistent equate it to the Torah itself (intentionally or not)?