I honestly don’t think that I will convince qwerty, since I have already gone in circles with him in the past.
However, for any readers who didn’t see the discussions in the past, here are my posts from last year:
August 4 2023:
From the 1950s until 1989, no one went crazy about the Rebbe saying and publishing that a rebbe is עצמות ומהות אליין ווי ער האט זיך אריינגעשטעלט אין א גוף.
Just as no one went crazy that the Minchas Elazar wrote (דרכי חיים ושלום – מנהגי תענית):
מגודל נשמת הגה”ק הרמ”מ מרימנוב זי”ע כי הקב”ה לקח ד’ אותיות הוי’ כביכול וכרכן בלבוש זשיפיצ”ע ובלבוש ספאדי”ק ומזה נעשה הרבי ר’ מענדילי מרימאנוב
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=4692&st=&pgnum=234&hilite=
No one went crazy when the Noam Elimelech wrote (about how a tzaddik has power to heal – ואתחנן ד):
אך זאת צריך להבין, מאין הוא להצדיק שיכול לרפאות לחולה ע”י תפילתו ולהמשיך לו חיות שיחי’ האדם, והלא חיותו של הצדיק איננו לעולם, הלא הוא כמקריות והאיך דבר מקרה יכול ליתן חיות לאדם, השי”ת ב”ה וב”ש שהוא חי וקים לעד ולעולמי עולמים וחיותו הוא עצמיות יכול ליתן חיות לאדם המקרי, אבל לא כן האדם שאין חיותו עצמיות. אמנם אין זה כי אם מחמת שהצדיק מדבק עצמו בהש”י ב”ה, ונמצא חיותו דבוק בהחיים הנצחיים העצמיות, והוי ליה חיותו של הצדיק ג”כ עצמיות ונצחיות, כי עצם אל עצם יחד ידובקו, ולכן יש כח ביד הצדיק להמשיך חיות אל החולה.
No one went crazy when Rabbeinu Bachya wrote (שמות לג, ז):
מכאן שנקרא משה בשם המיוחד, וכן מצינו שנקרא יעקב בשם אל שנאמר . . . וכן מצינו בשם הצדיק שנקרא בשם המיוחד . . וכן מצינו במלך המשיח שנקרא בשם המיוחד שנאמר וזה שמו אשר יקראו הוי’ צדקנו . . וטעם הדבר בכלם כי הדבק בדבר נקרא על שם הדבר שידבק בו.
No one went crazy when the Alter Rebbe wrote in Tanya (ch. 2) that every Jew is literally a part of G-d (quoting from Iyov (as mentioned by Sechel), but in Tanya he adds the word “mamash” – literally).
No one went crazy when Chazal said that the face of the Master Havayeh is R’ Shimon Bar Yochai. Or that “Havayeh in His holy chamber” refers to R’ Yitzchak in the beis midrash of Keisarin.
Of course, like anything in Torah, these statements need explanation and understanding. Go learn the ideas. There is an entire sefer – על הצדיקים (by Rabbi Pewsner) – that explains this topic at length. If you’re interested, go learn it. Don’t start calling thousands of people עובדי ע”ז (ch”v) because their Rebbe’s sefer says something that you don’t understand.
P.S. Again, this has nothing to do with ch”v davening to the Rebbe in shmone esrei, or the other nonsense which does not exist, as I wrote countless times.
This is a 1950s statement which some people decided to pull out in 1989 and misunderstand, in order to push the political agenda of the time.
September 2 2023:
Qwerty, you haven’t answered the question that I directed at you SEVEN times.
Shtika Kihoda?
P.S. I asked the question in posts: #2213451 #2216778 #2216863 #2217091 #2218000 #2218095 #2220157
I’ll repeat it again: When Lubavitch said a statement that you understood as AZ at first glance, you immediately attacked Lubavitch, and it didn’t enter your mind that there can be a deeper meaning.
However, you do not attack the Minchas Elozor, Noam Elimelech, Rabbeinu Bachya, Tanya, Zohar, or Yerushalmi – all of whom said similar statements which can also sound like AZ at first glance to an ignorant person.
Or, I can ask the question as I wrote it in a different post:
What if I were to say:
“Hashem took the four letters of His holy name (הוי’) and garbed them in a hat and kapoto, and this is the Rebbe…”
Or: “Who is the face of י-ה-ו-ה? The Rebbe.”
Or: “When the posuk says that Hashem is in His holy chamber, this refers to the Rebbe when he’s in shul”
Or: “How can the Rebbe heal people if he is mortal and only G-d can give life? Since a tzaddik is one with G-d, he has the power of infinity since his life is Hashem’s essence, therefore he can give life to a sick person.”
Would you also call this AZ even though these are just paraphrased from the aforementioned gedolim?
And if not, why not?
From another post:
P.S. For anyone actually interested in the topic and is wondering, “Indeed, what did the Rebbe, Minchas Elozor, Noam Elimelech, Rabbeinu Bachya, Tanya, Yerushalmi and Zohar mean when they wrote all of these surprising statements?” –
I suggest you watch an incredible shiur from Rabbi YY Jacobson on the topic: http://www.theyeshiva dot net/8291
(Although he discusses the general topic with many quotes from gedolim throughout the generations, he indeed doesn’t explicitly quote the Rebbe’s statement. I guess so as not to turn off his litvisher audience)