Philosopher: Arso, as usual, you misunderstood. Qwerty said he’s out of the thread. I never said I’m leaving.
True. I misunderstood.
I said I’m not going to argue about Yaacov lo mes anymore. Why should I waste my time with people who want to believe that Yaacov Avinue is physically alive, that his body is breathing while buried under the ground, that he’s eating and his bodily functions are working while at the same time being his body is in his kever not being able to move?
Not one person on this thread, and not one of the meforshim I have seen, say that Yaakov Avinu is breathing, eating, or that his bodily functions are working. You take statements of Rashi and meforshim, twist them to reach your own conclusion, and then make fun of what you have concluded!
Yaakov Avinu being alive after embalmment and burial is clearly miraculous, and as far as miracles are concerned it’s not a greater miracle for him to be alive without breathing etc than it is for him to be alive at all.
I will not continue arguing with people who deny what it says outright in the Chumash that the brothers of Yosef saw their father DIED, and other pesukim that openly show that Yaacov died.
So the fact that meforshim of earlier times discuss this problem, and answer it (!), means nothing to you?! Or are you going to ignore me for making that point, because you “will not continue” (despite feeling justified in denigrating those of us who understand what Rashi et al say, even though you wrote that you will not continue arguing).
And my challenge to you is one of the main challenges to qwerty that went unaddressed:
Does Artscroll say explicitly that according to Rashi, Yaakov Avinu did not die? Yes or no, please? And if yes, are they also as stupid and unlearned as Shmei and myself?
They don’t understand how to understand pesukim, Chazal and meforshim which only SEEM on the surface to contradict the pesukim that say that Yaacov died, but if learnt correctly, which these people obviously can’t or don’t want to
I take it you include in “these people” not only those on the thread, but also those meforshim, including the Ramban (Berishis 49:33), who answer your question.
I reiterate what I have said in the past, and although you will take it as an insult I mean it as a limud zechus. Women should not be involved in these discussions because they do not understand properly how learning Torah sheb’al peh works. (The same is true of men who do not have a yeshivah-education background.) Anyone who can stick to their question and ignore a Ramban who deals with it explicitly, hasn’t got a clue!
The fact is that you people choose to ignore meferishe pesukim
While you only ignore a Ramban who deals with the befeirushe pesukim…
because you want to use that as a springboard to then say the Lubavitche rebbe is alive. That is the point of you all arguing that Yaacov is physically alive.
And you say this to me?! How ridiculous! I challenge you to find anyone more adamant than me in arguing against the LR being Mashiach in a number of threads.