OY,oy,oy!!! I am not sure why I continue to be a masochist and read the postings of people who, while being very well-intentioned, limit their knowledge to the happenings of the last fifty years- the blink of an eye in our history and truly have no concept of Jewish history.
True honesty and notpashut- let me repeat my contentions and also my basis for asserting that “ddas torah’-as you interpret it- is of very recent vintage and has never been the norm in our history.
The idea that a Godol or Rov has the ABSOLUTE knowledge for everything and that one has to acccept all his sayings is ABSOLUTELY not the Jewish way. No one is infallible in our tradition. No one- not even Moshe rabbeinu- has absolute knowledge.
If you deny that- then you belong to a different religion.
This is my view, and everything else follows naturally. I have to accept the “PISKEI halocho” of poskim (at least the ones I take on as Posskim)by the fact of “lo sossur”, which deals exclusively with Piskei halocho.
However, on matters of everyday life and general conduct, no one has the absolute knowledge and I am not obliged to cast aside my own feelings and thoughts about this.
Note that I am saying I am not “obliged”. If I want to,sure I can accept this fact. That is why chassidim of all kinds do listen to their rebbe and why many of the yeshivaleit feel that they must listen to their roshei yeshiva.This is their privilege.
HOWEVER- it does not obligate ME or anyone else that does not accept this “yoke”.
Hence, to scream “daas torah” or “emunas chachomim’ is totally irrelevant. If I have not accepted that person’s leadership, this does not obligate me at all and I am not a worse jew for it.
notpashut- you mentioned “going to the bathroom”. well, many chassidim do not lift their finger without consulting their rebbe. Whether on business deals, shidduchim, jobs, houses, etc, they consult their rebbe. Does that mean I have to accept it too? NO- because I have not accepted that person’s yoke. It may be a good advice , but it is not obligatory for me.
tru honesty- I have no clue what you are trying to say with your examples of yesteryear. As a matter of fact, your examples support MY view of “daas torah”. I don’t know if anyone objected to translating the Torah in German but the fact is that it is being traslated in every language,starting many years ago. SO, where is your “daas torah” on this? if this would be an absolute “issur’ it could not be changed.
The fact is that the opinion of gedolim of yesteryear and today on “matters of general life’ are just that, opinions. They do not oblige me to follow this line at all.
I can- and will- vote for the candidate that I feel is right. The directive of any Godol by itself is only an opinion and does force me to follow it.
This never changed and has been so for thousands of years. You find time and time again in the gemoro that tannoim and amoroim had opinions that were not followed or , if they were followed, ended up wrongly.
SO, this is why I maintain that the concept of “daas torah’ that you espouse-namely that it is IMMUTABLE and MUST be followed, is a modern invention. only Piskei halocho have to be followed and ,even then, only if you accept this Possek.
I have not even started delving into the question of which godol is the one to follow.
true honesty- you, yourself admit you cannot fidn anywhere a basis for this idea. I wonder why this is so….could it be that it never really was a real concept?
The fact is that your concept of “daas torah’ is an invention of the twentieth century.