First of all I’d like to thank all of you for waiting so patiently & respectfully for my reply.
BTW Rabbiofberlin, where have you been? Another R’ Shloime weekend? 🙂
O.K. enough chit chat, down to business.
Cantoresq,
1)First of all, even though this was adressed to TH, your question of what to do when one’s Rebbe has been proven a knave is beyond my comprehension.
If your Doctor has been proven to be a fraud would you say to not ask another DR. instead??
2)You say I don’t know what people are thinking when choosing who to vote for.
Maybe so, but I can’t understand how you can possibly think that we are as attuned to Hashem’s desires as R’ Pam! (I understand I’m mixing two responses here) That seems to me as either the epitome of hubris, or maybe you just weren’t thinking when you wrote that. I apologize for my sharp tone but I’m really in shock.
3)You continually refer to what you percieve as my assertation that there is a “heavenly signal” from g-d to a Gadol.
I’ve never made any such statement. (although it certainly could sometimes be the case). All I have been contending throughout, is that someone who is immersed in g-d’s words his entire life will likely (an obvious understatement) know g-d’s will better than someone who is busy posting in the YW coffee room. A contention you continually dispute which frankly (as I already observed) makes me wonder if I’m meant to laugh or cry.
4)How you can say that g-d doesn’t care who will be the next president being that “his will gets done regardless”?
Well, if that’s the case then I guess g-d doesn’t really care about anything at all, does he?
5)You say I’m repeating the same doctrine in different ways.
I agree. Although I wonder if we all aren’t guilty of the same offence.
6)You wonder why, if I admit that a Gadol can err, are we not merely like sleazy casino folk playing the odds.
I don’t understand that one. If you’ll agree (which I imagine you would)that a Doctor or Mechanic or Tailor or Carpenter etc. can err, does this mean that when we ask their advice on medical, car, hem or building matters that we are sleazy casino folk playing the odds?
Any normal human understands that proffesionals know better. Are you now going to make all medical decisions on your own because a doctor can make a mistake? Even if you read a few textbooks?
7) You say that disageements between the Gedolim “collapses the entire house of cards”.
Again, same question, If two doctors disagree does that invalidate both opinions? Are you now better off deciding on your own? Clearly that’s absurd.
Time out for a second.
Referring back to #3, It seems that you are assuming that we are saying that da’as torah is synonymous with Ruach Hakodesh, in which case your collapsing house of cards would have some validity. However that is not the case & therefore the issue is no issue at all.
8) You say you “got me” on the R’ Chaim Kanievsky sefer being that his responses were based on “aggadic & other SOURCES”.
My dear friend, allow me to share with you a teaching of the Chazon Ish Zatza”l.
The Chazon Ish once said, (I believe in that particular instance it was about the ROSH – although he was reffering to all Gedolim) that when a Gadol paskens a Halacha & brings a raya – if you can “shlug up” the raya – you can pasken differently.
However when he says “Libi omer li” – on that you can’t argue – because “libi” encompasses “kol hatorah kula”, & you can’t argue on kol hatorah kula.
You say R’ Chaim based his answer on “SOURCES” & used “keen intellect” & “inductive resoning” to arrive at his conclusions.
The Chazon Ish says that when he DOESN’T give “sources”, his opinion is even MORE valuble!
9) Finally, after putting us through all this torture you show us that this entire dialouge has been one big miscommunication by revealing that you yourself (AHA!!! GOTCHA!!!!)seek out da’as torah on “the big questions in my life” – even on “mundane personal issues”.
You simply prefer to call it “sage advice”. You prefer to look at it as an intellectual issue. O.K. bevakasha, I think it’s more than that, but I’m not as depressed as I was before.
I just feel that the intellect after a while becomes a “sixth sense” or “chush”.
For instance, someone I know had a baby who wasn’t feeling well & took the kid to the pediatrician. A different friend of mine was in the waiting room at the time. The one who was waiting, we’ll call him Reuven, told me that when the doctor came into the waiting room to call in the next patient he noticed the baby & turned white as a ghost. Without saying a word he quickly wrote down an address on a piece of paper, handed the mother a $100 bill & told her to take a cab to that address (a hospital) & take a particular test.
When Reuven’s turn came the Dr. was still visibly shaken & when he asked what that was all about the Dr. responded “That child has cancer”. When Reuven asked him how he knew, after all, he’d only seen the child sitting in the waiting room, the Dr. could not answer.
He just shrugged his shoulders & simply said, “I just knew”. (unfortunately he was correct, although now B”H the chld is fine)
His “keen intellect” & “inductive reasoning” (& experience) had become so much part of his being that HE JUST KNEW.
When R’ Chaim or any Adam Gadol brings a passuk, that’s great.
But sometimes they just know. And that is an outgrowth of living & breathing Torah.
One last point, Why do you admit that you would ask a Rav & find his insight valuble cocerning which proffesion to choose & if a particular girl should become your wife & yet feel they are unqualified proffer an opinion on who should be our next president?
P.S. I hope I’m not in trouble with the moderator now because of you for having too long a post.
Oh, I forgot, you’ve already admitted to being the editor! 🙂