Reply To: Rubah Dlesah Lekaman

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#628734

thanks for finding that shmaytsa, gavra. (I like your roaming_gavra user name 🙂 )

I looked up the shmaytsa it starts in perek vov and continues into zayin. He brings down a tosfos like you said in sanhedrin 3b which says that shmuel only says we don’t go basar rov by momoin in the case of ruba l’radia – a majority buy for the purpose of using cows, not shechting them, but by other cases of rov then shmuel will agree to rav that we do use rov even by momoinos. Tosfos doesn’t explain why this is so. The shmaytza brings down 2 sevaros, one from the bach which is similar to squeak’s tayna. I didn’t look inside the bach but I think he quoted him as saying that more cows are bought for shechita but more buyers are buying to use the cows alive. The Ramban and the Ritva say a different sevara which the shmaytsa wants to use to explain tosfos – which is gavra’s sevara above – that a rov which is based on a person’s decision (ruba l’radia) is weaker than a rov which is based on nature (giving birth after 9 months).

However, I think both are called ruba d’leisa kaman, just there is a halachic difference between them by momoin according to those rishonim. The rashbam clearly calls the ruba l’radia a ruba dleisa kaman.

The shmaytsa asks on tosfos from your camel case. In that case it is a rov based on nature so according to tosfos shmuel should agree there that one does go basar rov, so why does the gemara say that shmuel could agree there because its gufo muchzak, instead the gemara should say that shmuel agrees by the camel because its a rov based on nature, not based on a decision.

On the answer that gemara gives, that gufo muchzak, I’m not sure what that means. Does it mean the camel is a muad? The rashbam in the hava ameina clearly says this camel has never done this before and that is itself the chidush of the camel case. Is the maskana changing that assumption or does it mean something else?

oh, and squeak, the rashbam says clearly that the camel was next to the dead carcass.

I’ll just add with an agreement to gavra that I have not gone through the entire sugyah, so there may be more.

Please feel free to add or refute, Torah He VLilmod Ani Tzarich.

Yasher Koach to all those who post here.