well, I am kind of coming into this late, as I was not able to read most of these postings this past week but allow another member of the “pro’freikeit” brigade to add a few words to this argument. Pashute Yid gave such a wonderful original posting and another extraordinary rebuttal that I have little to add. History , fashioned by the Being who leads us all, the Bashefer, will prove which side isa right. For now, the ones who are on the side of those “terrible Tzionim” is winning hands down. As mentioned, we are back in our “Eretz Hakodesh”, being able to do mitzvos in a real, true Yiddish atmosphere. At least 25% of the Klal is fully observant and probably another 50% traditional. Not bad for a place that the extremists consider a place of “macharivei Torah”. I will not comment on the last posting, in reference to Kastner. Sheker has many legs and runs fast but ,ultimately, the Emess will come out.However, I do want to address “Hakatan”‘s mention of the sayings of some Zionists. btw,how about giving us some real sources for these quotations, rather than some imaginary anonymous quote?. I can remember some very offensive quotes by some people that you consider “gedolim”. Who said that Chabad is not part of Klal Yisroel and you cannot be “meshadech’ with them? (No prize for the name of this Gadol)
Who called good Jews kofrim because their “sin” was to believe that it was time to go back to our own homeland? (Again , no prize for his name).
Whose opposition to the medinah has brought some of his supporters to join hands with the most evil and dangerous sonei yisroel? (no prize there either)
If words and phrases would be so insulting, we can find plenty of terrible words on the extremist side too. Forget the words, look at the facts, and reality, being a sign from the Almighty, for now, is on our side , the Tzioni side.