Reply To: Chivalry & Yiddishkeit: A Foreign Concept

When I posted this thread, I focused on the general idea of chivalry, not the fact that a man’s life has priority in being saved over a woman’s. That side point was mentioned in the mekors I quoted. They were direct quotes from the poskim, without any of my own commentary on that point.

tzippi: All the poskim I’ve brought down in the OP, or have otherwise seen, make no distiction if one is pregnant or not. (In any event, it would be a difficult proposition to account for. Suddenly all the married’s will think the’re pregnant on a sinking ship?) What does the perfection of Torah & Halacha have to do with imperfect followers or with this topic?

kiruvwife: The psak is very straightforward. There aren’t exceptions mentioned in Shulchan Orach.

SJSinNYC: I quoted the poskim, and it is psak din that I’ve brought. (The psak brought down the Gemora the psak is based on.) And this issue isn’t a machlokes poskim. It is a clear-cut Shulchan Orach. (And I’ve brought various poskim down.)

Now that this issue has been broached, it is an interesting observation that had the Titanic C’V been a Jewish sail, al pi halacha they would have had to save the men first – as there were insufficient facilities to save all. (And I don’t see how the gentiles could view that any more discriminatory than what they did – the exact opposite. They chivalrously saved the women first on the ship. All though this point is irrelevant, as we follow halacha, not worry about if by doing so the goyim won’t like it.)

I always opened the car door for the young ladies I dated. It just seemed like “the right thing to do.” After all, my father always opened the car door for my mother – and still does, even after 50 years of marriage (bli e”h). My father was always a “menchlich” kind of person, and I’m sure that’s why he always opens the car door – to honor my mother.

mamashtakah: And if your wife or mother was driving (assuming they drive), would it be equally “the right thing to do” and menchlich for her to open the door to honor her husband? Or do you just propose it is “the right thing to do” from him but not her? The idea that the reverse “would just be weird” is because that is how the goyim see it (chivalry). Which further demonstrates where this idea is emanating from.

Let us keep things in perspective.