Reply To: Is Learning Science Spiritually Dangerous?

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#660590
Pashuteh Yid
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Joseph, among the statements of the Rambam in Hilchos Deos are relative sizes of the sun, moon, and earth. They are off by quite a bit from modern accepted figures. Are you going to tell me that the modern astronomers don’t know these sizes? We have a GPS system which is based on the exact positions of satellites. I have reason to believe that scientists know something about orbits. They have also sent man to the moon and back. The Rambam also says the planets are set in hard spheres, and there is no space between these spheres. Why haven’t our rockets crashed into any of them? The gadlus of the Rambam was that he would be the first to say to use the science of our times.

As far as gemara in Pesachim where Chazal were modeh that the non-Jewish astronomers were right, why in the world should I accept a dochak pshat from the sefer that you quote. What is the hechrech to interpret the gemara any differently than it says in black and white. Note, Rebbe Akiva Eger in the gilyon hashas tries to say Chazal were really right, just did not have a ready answer in that debate, as you try to say, but do you then accept his pshat of bokea chalonei rakia that there is a big window in the sky that opens during the day and closes at night to block the sun?

Second you keep quoting Rabbonim who validate the scientific knowledge of other Rabbonim from various eras. But that is called preaching to the choir. Can you provide a single instance of a Gadol from any era who was mechadesh a scientific principle which was previously unknown to the world, and is accepted as correct today. I.e., Archimedes lived at the time of Chazal, I believe. He has a principle that is still in physics books today that submerged objects displace their volume of fluid, and floating objects displace their weight.

Also Pythagoras’s theorem is still used today. While Chazal mention it only for the square case (1:1:1.4 or 4:4:5.6, etc.), it holds for rectangles, too. Please find me a single scientific chidush from a Gadol of any era which demonstrates that they were ahead of the other scientists of their time by virtue of their Torah knowledge and which stands the test of time so that it is correct even today.

If you want to believe that Chazal and the gedolim of today know modern science, you may believe it. However, don’t expect many of us to believe something which can easily be demonstrated, but has not been. (And which of the 13 articles of faith does it violate, anyway?) Note, the Rambam writes that we are not even required to believe a Navi until he proves himself by means of osos and mofsim. I also recall reading that at least one sefer says one is never obligated to believe something that goes against his physical senses. If you can’t show me a single gadol today that could pass a grad school exam in science, then why should I believe it was different 100 or 300 or 1500 years ago. (Note they could certainly pass if they went to grad school and studied the material, but we are talking about getting it from the Torah alone.)

Finally, Rashi in many places does mathematical calculations. He very often, despite his derech of always writing as short as possible, will go to great lengths to do a multiplication. Don’t have a ready example, but he will say something like 258.25 times 5 is such and such, keitzad, and then multiply the 200 by 5, and the 50 by 5, and the 8 by 5, and then the fractional part by five, grouping fractional part into whole numbers and remainder,and then add everything up taking many lines to illustrate the correct answer. But this is basically 5th grade math. It took a very long time to set up the problem in those days. They didn’t have the quick mathematical symbols and language we have today. If Rashi lived today, would he spend a whole paragraph doing a simple multiplication? I am chas veshalom not saying anything bad against Rashi. I am just saying that he used the tools available in his times.

The gadlus of Torah is menschlachkeit and midos. It was not given to be a science book.

More in future posts, IYH.