Fascinating. Ok, I’m going to address the rationale stuff 🙂
Aries
– as always, your graciousness is appreciated. Hopefully, conversations like this will eventually breed a grass roots solution.
And 90% of the time, Gedoley Yisroel are passive – AKA giving Haskamos to initiatives started by a “meshugena l’davar echad” – aka, Sarah Schnierer or Rosenberg (Shaatnez) etc. It would certainly be an honor to be called a Meshugena for these kids.
As Per R’ Menashe Klien’s Psak –
There are two aspects here –
Punishment – that requires a full classical Torah standard of proof. We cannot dish out punishment or reprisal or cause punishment without it. Nor can we cause a punishment that is no Beis Din like. So we cannot use the secular courts for punishment. I think that Mr. Pasik Esq. and Aries will agree with this.
And based on that we can understand why so many were silent.
But there is a second, more important aspect, and that with bitter experience – and this is where our community has erred until now, and why those who tried to brush things under the rug should made a costly mistake , but were not evil – prevention. Rodef. And R’ Menashe Klien is correct, if you can stop a Rodef in another way, you must, But…bitter, painful, experience has shown that they pick themselves up and find another school. And in today’s 30,000 a year yeshivos, we need to take whom we can get. And he attacks again. Gets fired. Attacks again.
The only way to permanently keep the Rodef from stiking again is either incarceration or the electric chair. Firing just doesn’t stop the Rodef. We’ve protect this years class. But not the next yeshiva – and if he does it, again and again, as research – reliable, none hysterical research has shown a tremendous recidivism rate when around children – he needs to be locked up for a nice amount of years, and then be branded as sex offender.
And a Rodef requires a lower standard of proof then punishment.
When we see someone chasing someone else with a knife, we need not ask Beis Din. We need to lock & load. But what standard? Whatever it is – it is not the classical Torah standard of proof. Soklin V’Sorfim Al HaChazakos. This requires more research (for instance, we permit a late term abortion to the save the Mother’s life, based on the say so of a professional. Obviously, we would not execute someone based on this. But we are permitted to kill baby – Hashem Yishmor – based on the Din Rodef.)
Again, I don’t think we should let the police determine this, but the standard is definitely lower then two witnesses etc. And since experience has shown that the only way to prevent is via the authorities, we must do so.
(Mr. Pasik – what has the success rate been with chemical castration? I know in Israel the injections are often a condition of parole, and are covered by insurance).
A child’s word should be taken into account – even more so, his behavior & actions being consistent with the clinical behavior of a victim, certainly if he attempts to molest another child (of course, we know he’s a victim, but we don’t know from whom, even if he claims it’s Rebbe – it could very well be a parent, Hashem Yishmor. Investigate!).
Again, I’m not sure exactly where the line is. To give everything to the police is irresponsible. To wait for two witnesses is to let the Rodef keep killing. My idea is to have an internal investigation.
As Per R’ Elyashiv –
R’ Elyashiv says certain. True. But what on earth does that mean. He is well known for being concise. Certain does not davka mean two witnesses. I believe he means Rodef standard, because a Rodef clearly does not require two witnesses. We seek prevention by all means necessary, not punishment.
Some other aspects –
This has become a megefah amoungst us; I was told by a respected psychologist that our abuse rate has exceeded the general population. We need to find out why, and deal with it from there. I have what to say about this, but I’d like to hear your opinions first.
We need to be preventative, before the molester strikes
-Child education of what red lines are. Establishing a confidential reporting hotline (to my imaginary independent investigative force)
-Unfortunately, we need to require teaching professionals to treat children as girls. No yichud. No touching. Period. Makes things safer for everyone involved. And less excuses if accusations come up. And no yichud will prevent the opportunity for a false accusation.
-Video cameras in all classrooms. Small, subtle ones. Everyone is told about them. It’s not expensive, a few thousand dollars for a school. Again, protecting innocent children – and innocent rebbeim/teachers. You can easily keep recordings for a year, with compression and a few decent hard drives.
-Profiling & background checks. Why why why not? Everyone.
-A confidential helpline for the potential abuser. A place he can get help without getting arrested (before he strikes, obviously.) they often struggle with urges for years before they strike. What if there was a hotline, that a potential molester (who was molested himself) could call – that would pay for therapy, help him ease out of teaching via new training and money until he is settled elsewhere, with absolute legal confidentiality (assuming, of course, he hasn’t struck. Then we can’t protect him). Anonymous & helpful. And we’ve saved him and our kids. Figure $30,000 to help him get gainful employed elsewhere & therapy (and perhaps those wonderful injections?). And of course, keep in touch, ever so quietly. That’s a bargain.
-Raise the bar in our schools. Healthy people are not abusers. Because our schools struggle so much, often they hire nebichs. Healthy, put together people go elsewhere. If our schools paid $60,000 a year for a Rebbe and required a Masters degree (or semicha..whatever) – our rates would drop. Molesters are usually unsuccessful people, whom can only control children. But not always. Yes, it’s all about the Benjamins.
This is money we are spending anyway.
Thoughts?