Reply To: Worms In Fish

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hello99
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Daas: I enjoy hearing your ??????, however I’m afraid I cannot agree with them.

The ??”? ?”? ?”? ?”? ?”? (usually the ??”? is referred to by ???? ???) writes, as you quoted, that the worms that were ???? in a live animal are ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? and may not be sold to a ???. You extrapolate from this a general rule that all worms receive the halachic status of their host. This is too big of a leap to make without proof. First of all we see no proof that a worm that comes from outside acquires any status from its host. While you make a good point that since the worm becomes ???? ??????? inside the host it should be similar to being ????, however we would need to understand the underlying reason why the worm that grows in the animal becomes ??? ??? ???. If it is a technical ????? ?????, then it is reasonable to say that the worm was ???? in the shrimp because that is where it technically comes into existence, as you proposed. However if it is because the worm is a ????? ?? ??? and the source of its ????? is ??? ??? ??? then we have no proof. I am not aware of any ??? that explains this halacha.

Secondly, we only see from this ??”? a halacha of ??? ??? ??? but no indication that it would apply to any other sugya in the Torah.

Then you brought another ??”? in ???? ?”? that you would like to use to answer my second problem. This is the ??”? I mentioned in my previous post. The Rema there writes that the minhag is to wait 6 hours after hard cheese. The Taz explains that it must leave a strong taste in the mouth and be wormy. The simple explanation of the Taz would be that when cheese is wormy the cheese itself leaves a strong, lingering taste in the mouth and the worms are a ???? ?????. However, the ??”?, for some reason, writes that one must eat the worms to need to wait 6 hours. Apparently he understands that even when old and wormy the cheese itself does not have a sufficiently strong flavor to require waiting, but the worms do have the required flavor.

You understood the ??”? to be saying that one only need eat the worms without any of the actual cheese itself to need to wait, and deduced from there a general rule that the worms acquire the host status for all halachos. While I cannot disprove this understanding, I do not see that it is ???? and in any event I do not see other Poskim agreeing with the ??”? nor do I have any idea where he would have found a ???? for this assumption. An alternative explanation of the ??”? would be, as I mentioned previously, that one must eat the cheese and worms together and the combination of the two leaves a strong residual cheesy flavor in the mouth. So, while I could not say your understanding of the ??”? is wrong, it certainly is NOT strong enough to invent a new ??? in ????.

Regarding the ????? of ???? ???????. I have a feeling you are off by a decimal point. According to my research the copepods in NYC water are up to 1mm in size and I suspect the ??????? you meant to write were .3mm and .5mm not .03 and .05. Otherwise the discrepancy between the different ????? is too big, as you mentioned. Rav Vaye in his “bug book” writes that the smallest pests that are ???? ??????? are mites which he equates with the ?????? of the ??????? and he writes that they are .2-.3mm. Rav Vaye is known for having the most machmir size for ???? ???????.

If the eggs of anisakis are borderline on this ?????, it is logical to assume that the immature larva immediately upon hatching are SMALLER, not larger as you wrote, because they must fit inside the egg. Even if the krill do not swallow them immediately on hatching, it is doubtful if they grow significantly before they have any source of nourishment as they cannot eat without a host. Furthermore, I have not seen any indication if the scientists know whether the anisakis are swallowed by krill after they hatch or while they are still inside their eggs.

You mention that we should not rely on the very limited knowledge of the scientists in this case and say ??? ???????? ??????, but on the other hand if the only information we do have indicates that they are ???? we should apply the rule of ?? ??????? ??????.