Reply To: Republicans Vs. Democrats

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#822581
RSRH
Member

Ben Torah,

Thank you for bringing that Gemarah to my attention.

I disagree with the first paragraph of your comment, since ultimately it is the homosexual act that the Torah forbids, not some amorphous concept of domestic relationship or what kind of outrageous behavior some may exhibit at a parade. Those are all actions, but it seems to me that the ones that matter for our purposes are the ones the Torah expressly prohibits. After all, if the Torah assurs the act of eating a sheretz, you would not say that the act of going to the zoo to look at the scorpions and rodents is a violation of this prohibition – going to the zoo is certainly an act related to sheratzim, but ultimately it is not the act the Torah spoke of.

As far as the gemarah, goes, again thank you! I have not yet learned chullin (I am more of a nezikin and choshen mishpat guy, hence my being a bit of a stickler for the letter of the law, ect.), and had not seen the gemarah. I will have to consider it, and likely revise my position.

As I think about this point, however, perhaps you could give me your thoughts on a few points:

1) This is clearly aggada, not halacha, so what role do you see it playing? Can it be a sufficient basis for legislation in a non-Jewish country to ban gay marriage? It seems to be a statement rather than a prohibition. Couldn’t New York, for example, choose to allow gay marriage, and then see what happens – i.e., see if indeed it will collapse due to abandoning this standard of conduct.

2) Keep in mind that a kesubbah is essentially a private contract. It doesnt confer state benefits or immunities. A gay couple may currently make a private contract stipulating the obligations of civil marriage – i.e., mutual financial obligations, penalties for separation, ect. So why equate State recognition of gay marriage to kessuba as used in the genarah; it seems that gay couples can already (and they probably do) write private “kessubos” for each other.