Reply To: ???? ???

I agree that it sounds like a chiddush, but apparently you came to a similar conclusion, so it probably has some sense to it.

Here is my train of thought; you can tell me what you think of it:

????? ???. ?????? ????, ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ????.

???? ???? ???? ??? ? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??????. ????? ???????? [???] ???? ????? [?????] ??. ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????, ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???, ??? ??? ????, ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??. ?????? ??”? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ?”?. ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???, ??? ????, ??? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ??”?.

We therefore see that the Rema held like Rashi.

B) The Ramban in the sugya of ???? ??? writes (Chullin 108b at the end of ?”? ???? ??’):

??? ???? ??? ????, ????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????, ??? ???????: ??? ????”? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???????, ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????, ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???. ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????. ???????, ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????, ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??????? ???. ????????, ????? ??????, ????? ?? ????? ???? ???, ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????, ??? ?????? ???????? ?”? ???? ?????? ??????? ??, ?? ???? ??.

Question 1: When he writes “????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????” he is still willing to say that the ???? ??? is assur. Why?

C) What was the machlokes Rav and Shmuel; was it a machlokes in dinei ?????? or a machlokes in dinei heat?

Since it seems clear ??? ????? that it is a machlokes in dinei heat, it seems pashut to me that Rav and Shmuel are not arguing in a case where the cold one is still freezing cold.

D) Where are they arguing then? I think the answer is in a case where we cannot tell, or the situation has already passed. Rav says the metzius is ????? ??? and therefore we assume only the top will heat up the bottom; Shmuel says ???? ??? and we assume only the bottom will heat up the top.

E) All of this is of course only ????? ??????, but ????? ????? we already know that there is no ????? in anything other than a ??? ?????.